I would also like to know,as my soft tissue tests have been 100% successful in penetration and expansion. I bought 600 rounds as standard carry for my CCW piece after testing 100 rounds for accuracy and feedability.Originally Posted by TC215
I would also like to know,as my soft tissue tests have been 100% successful in penetration and expansion. I bought 600 rounds as standard carry for my CCW piece after testing 100 rounds for accuracy and feedability.
Thanks for the useless information.
Really?
I took the time to follow up on the OP’s info with one of his contacts. I was asked not to share specifics, as it could get multiple people in trouble. To honor that confidentiality, I will have to do more legwork myself before going to my own agency to discuss issues about the ammo. The information provided was consistent with the post that @Chuck Haggard made.
I have to be up a small agency in the mountains doing some training stuff next week. Think I will pick up some 147 GD and G2 and run it through the Kahr and a P239. All I can do is look at reliability, accuracy, etc. Any excuse to get some extra trigger time is good anyway.
Yes. Is it all current 9 mm 147 HST2? Is it only certain lots? Has Federal acknowledged there's a problem? I'm about to spend my $25k ammunition budget and make an order. If you want to PM me or get my GOV email address, I'd appreciate your off-line information. I can just as easily buy Hornady Critical Duty or Speer Gold Dot which we've done in the past during shortages.
If you’re about to spend $25k on ammo, you’d be better served by spending your time doing your homework like I did instead of criticizing my posts on p-f.
Again, I was asked not to share specifics, and I’m going to honor that. I would recommend contacting your Federal rep and asking them to set up an ammo/ballistics demo for your department.
If I was the one buying ammo, I would be looking at 124 gr +P Gold Dots or HST, or 135gr +P Critical Duty. Unfortunately for us, we issue G43’s as UC/BUG’s, and +P ammo doesn’t play well with those.
I am obviously not in the know on this, but FWIW, it appears your agency's duty ammo has been HST2. Reading between the lines, it appears that there are some significant issues with recent changes to this ammo. An ATK sales rep should know more about this and would likely be happy to sell you Speer instead. If 147 has been working for you, get the GD or G2 147 gr ammo. Your shooters will have a a similar round and the performance will be in the same ballpark as what you are happy with now, except that it may overcome some bad issue with the HST which is apparently somewhat confidential for the moment. Or get the +p 124 GD or 1+p35 Hornady, since it seems to have met the requirements of numerous local and fed agencies and is what all the cool kids like ;-).
By the time you need to spend next year's budget, the questions will probably be answered (and there will probably be some new wonder bullet). This is just my amateur, uninformed thought on this. I have no say in agency ammo decisions or any special knowledge.
Heck, we aren't supposed to be shooting at people anymore anyway, or at least only shooting them in the leg to slow them down.
That makes sense.
I have shot a lot of auto glass in both testing and training. I have found that shooting one shot through glass isn't the best tactic. If you are going to engage, "P stands for plenty" as the guys who taught me would say. I don't count on my first two or three rounds to meet their marks. I have seen good ammo like the 124 +P Gold Dot veer off course so much that I had to actually aim for the hip area of an ISPC target a few yards off of the front bumper of the car I was in to get hits on target that were landing in the head box/upper shoulder area. Then I've seen rounds hit point of point of impact after auto glass. With that being said, I'm not to overly concerned with performance on glass. Then I look at the odds we shoot into glass. Most of our shootings as officers is open air shots. Civilians have a even lower odds of having to shoot through glass. Personally, I would prefer to take that 1 in 100 chance and have a good expanding 147 than have a 147 that does well in glass and not heavy clothing. Of course now that I say that, I will have Chuck Haggard's luck and we will have the next few shootings through glass.
One thing I’ve learned in a vast amount of testing, not bullet effectiveness in gel or any of that, but reliability and velocities. What I’ve found is there really isn’t a one size fits all. Certain guns will exhibit certain behaviors with different rounds. For example, the 147 HST has chrono’d faster in my G43 than in my 92 Compact. The other side of the coin is running +P or +P+ in these micro-9mms. Aside from the excessive were on these little Gus, my experience shows the added slide velocity shows them more susceptible to reliability issues when combine with extreme limp wrist testing.
While I’m not going to have a different load for each and every gun, combining my experience of the physical intricacies along with the knowledge gained from those with such expertise regarding street performance (I’ve read the Doc’s post on this 15+ times), I’ve settled on 124 +P Gold Dot for the longer barreled, more robust guns, and the 147 HST for the micros.
Having just bought a case of 147 HSTs at elevated Covid pricing, the news of a possible change in design and effectiveness is disappointing.
Reply With Quote