Also very interested in this thread.
I took Doc’s advice three years ago, verified 147 HST ran in my Glock 19, bought a bunch, and got on with focusing on shot placement.
Now, in 2020, I’m evaluating a swap to a shorter barrel pistol (P365/P365XL) for EDC and competition / training. This thread now gives me pause as to what to use in these two guns. So far, I’ve verified Speer 115 GD in the P365 and Federal 147 HST in the XL (no issues). I’d prefer to select one load for either/both for logistics ease. My options include Speer 115 GD, 124 GD, 124+p GD, Federal 124 HST, and 147 HST (that I’m familiar with. I’ll check Doc’s list for other options but these are the loads I can reliably purchase online and shoot POA in my limited experience.)
Any or all SME discussion on this is much appreciated.
Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)
If I remember correctly, Hornady's 135gr +P Critical duty is also on Doc's list and is one of the rounds adopted by the FBI. How is it in short barrel guns?
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Agreed, I had issues with a Glock Gen 3 26 with Ranger 127 +P+ ammo. I couldn't get through a single magazine without having several failure to extracts. I sent it back to Glock and then sold it when I got it back. At the time the 127 load was good to go and locally I could buy it by the box instead of the case. When I sold it, I went out and bought a 19 that fed the 127 Ranger without issues. With that being said, when we clocked this 124 +P HST we were getting 1260fps out of a Glock 17. Years back when I clocked the 127 +P+ Ranger T, it clocked at 1280fps out of a Glock 17. That torque is not a big deal out of larger guns but might run into the same issues out of the little ones like that Gen 3 26 loaded with the 127 ammo.
I am well aware of Doctor Roberts’ good advice about finding a load that works, stocking up and focusing on skills instead of chasing the perfect ammo. I think this thread illustrates, however, that there is also merit in keeping an eye on new developments.
I am one of those who basically settled on 147 HST several years back and have advocated that ammo for quite a while. In part, I like this weight in 9mm because I believe it retains its performance characteristics well in short barrel guns, and is also easy to shoot in such guns. The lighter bullet +p rounds seem to lose their edge more rapidly.
I began hearing these rumors of diminished HST performance a year or so ago and am wondering now about ammo choices. I supply my own carry ammo for personal use and my supply has dwindled over time and I really cannot say how new or old most of it is. I am approaching a need to restock in the not-to-distant future and this stuff isn’t cheap. I am also aware of the Winchester QC issues so am reluctant to consider it as a top contender. So, I am considering making my next caselot purchase Gold Dot or Gold Dot G2 or perhaps Critical Duty 135 or 135 +p, and would welcome informed opinions on these.
I understand and agree with the wisdom of not worrying too much about a specific ammo choice and instead focusing on skills and mindset, and perhaps the newer HST ammo is sufficiently similar to the old that it makes no real difference, but before plunking down several hundred dollars on a case of new ammo when prices and availability settle down, I would like to consider the options. Of course, I will buy a couple boxes first to check for performance in my guns. Perhaps I should add that although I am given a certain amount of 124 +p god dot ammo for free at various times, and I buy it in limited quantities for practice purposes, I am not very fond of that ammo in small guns so am not really considering it as an option for this purchase.
I don't know if it has any added benefits but I have seen hundreds of people shot and over 70 homicides in my career. Most of this was done with handgun ammo and of that most of it was done with ball ammo. I noticed that with a Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty ammo that I've seen people shot with makes the same entry wound as a full metal jacket where the hollow points tend to cut a hole in the skin and muscle like someone used a tiny biscuit cutter. I assume he G2 would do the same as the Hornady stuff. I'm sure if you are going to run any of those, they will all give you similar performance. If you want to stay heavier, I would opt for a +P 135 over the other stuff just to make sure your weapon cycles in less than ideal shooting positions. I'm curious why you don't care for the 124 +P Gold Dot.