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Thread: New Duty Load

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    The Federal ammo runs but we weren't happy with the terminal performance.
    How so? What specific issues did you have with the terminal performance of the 147 HST that you weren't happy with? How many shootings did you have with it?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    I run Miltech TB25 Grease on the rails and Slip 2000 EWL 30 on the other moving parts that require lube. Seems to work well on my 17 in both the cold Midwest winters and hot humid summers. We don't get the Texas heat like you guys got there though.
    When I'm buying I buy Slip 2000.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAT Lt. View Post
    How so? What specific issues did you have with the terminal performance of the 147 HST that you weren't happy with? How many shootings did you have with it?
    We were seeing some them not expanding and pass throughs. We had several shootings with them since we switched to the 9mm. I don’t have an exact number. We wanted something more consistent.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    We were seeing some them not expanding and pass throughs. We had several shootings with them since we switched to the 9mm. I don’t have an exact number. We wanted something more consistent.
    Would you be willing to send any photos, reports, etc. to a gov't email address is I send you mine?

  5. #25
    Member Balisong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAT Lt. View Post
    How so? What specific issues did you have with the terminal performance of the 147 HST that you weren't happy with? How many shootings did you have with it?
    I'm also really confused by this as it's wildly contrary to everything else I've read on here about it, including from DocGKR.

  6. #26
    I think the OP's point is that the 147 HST's stellar record of street results (and performance in gel tests) was established before the bullet was redesigned with shorter skiving a few years ago. I tend to think the engineers at ATK know what they're doing -- but I too would like to see some new results/testing.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mac View Post
    I think the OP's point is that the 147 HST's stellar record of street results (and performance in gel tests) was established before the bullet was redesigned with shorter skiving a few years ago. I tend to think the engineers at ATK know what they're doing -- but I too would like to see some new results/testing.
    With the shorter skiving and double cannelure the newer design should be better in auto glass tests.

  8. #28
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    I know the Fuzz personally, he's not a goober or an idiot. He's actually an extremely well trained, experienced shooter and street cop.

    Ref the 147gr HST. This used to be my go-to recommendation for short 9mm pistols. For several years.

    Now, not so much. I used to be able to do demo test shots in my small pistols class to show what we want to see from a good bullet design. Typically in Clear Gel, which I use just as an illustration, the HSTs and Gold Dots expand nicely through four layer denim, run the length of the block, and stop on the "clothing" I have on the back side to catch them.

    Over the past year I've been seeing failures from the 147gr HST, as in they completely fail to expand, thus act like a FMJFP. This happened last year in my class in front of Cecil Burch, Lee, and Matt and Rob Haught. This first happened from a G43, so we tried Matt's Beretta for the longer barrel. Same thing happened.

    I've learned over the years to "trust but verify". Do we recall Todd's blog on "Trust no one's gun"? Well, that applies to bullets as well IMHO.

    The most glaring example is the Winchester Ranger-T line. The 147gr Ranger-T used to be a "rock star", to steal a term from an LAPD firearms instructor I know. Then, Winchester got lazy on QC, and bullets can't be counted on to expand. I've see the 127gr +P+ launched from a G34 fail to expand. That's a rather dramatic failure.
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  9. #29
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I know the Fuzz personally, he's not a goober or an idiot. He's actually an extremely well trained, experienced shooter and street cop.

    Ref the 147gr HST. This used to be my go-to recommendation for short 9mm pistols. For several years.

    Now, not so much. I used to be able to do demo test shots in my small pistols class to show what we want to see from a good bullet design. Typically in Clear Gel, which I use just as an illustration, the HSTs and Gold Dots expand nicely through four layer denim, run the length of the block, and stop on the "clothing" I have on the back side to catch them.

    Over the past year I've been seeing failures from the 147gr HST, as in they completely fail to expand, thus act like a FMJFP. This happened last year in my class in front of Cecil Burch, Lee, and Matt and Rob Haught. This first happened from a G43, so we tried Matt's Beretta for the longer barrel. Same thing happened.

    I've learned over the years to "trust but verify". Do we recall Todd's blog on "Trust no one's gun"? Well, that applies to bullets as well IMHO.

    The most glaring example is the Winchester Ranger-T line. The 147gr Ranger-T used to be a "rock star", to steal a term from an LAPD firearms instructor I know. Then, Winchester got lazy on QC, and bullets can't be counted on to expand. I've see the 127gr +P+ launched from a G34 fail to expand. That's a rather dramatic failure.
    No es bueno. Are they plugging up? Have you tried single layer? Bare gel? Have you asked Federal about this? Based on your timeline, I've got some that is going to suck and some that's probably GTG.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  10. #30
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    No es bueno. Are they plugging up? Have you tried single layer? Bare gel? Have you asked Federal about this? Based on your timeline, I've got some that is going to suck and some that's probably GTG.
    I think most or all of mine is the older...but I also have some 124 standard (Gold Dot) and 124 +P (HST) on hand if a swap is necessary. Hope not, though.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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