Looking for another opinion: Sheriff v activists re: Grossman

[John Hearne]

The problem with Grossman is that he isn't entirely wrong. Rather than a source you can just dismiss, you actually have to know which parts to disregard and which are important.

I've attended his one day talk that was mental preparation and Beslan. I think it was a net positive.

[Hambo]

If I want to learn about the psychology of killing/violence, I'll just call someone who has actually done those things.

That's going to be of limited usefulness. You can find out how it affected that individual, but unless they're a psychologist/psychiatrist they're not going to be able to explain the mental processes. When I worked with a Critical Incident Stress Debriefing team, it was made up of peers for the former, and mental health professionals for the latter. There was exactly one person on the team who checked both boxes.

The deal is this: our local sheriff—who I’ve met—is sponsoring a multi-agency Dave Grossman seminar. The cancel culture is out in force on this one, including a petition with 4k signatures demanding that the sheriff cancel the training. I’d ask folks, who are willing, to read the article; I’m looking for extra sets of eyes to check—and develop—my own feelings on this. I think that there’s a lot going on in between the lines in this article, and I’m bothered by the whole thrust of it.

I appreciate opinions from LE on this. Up front, I don’t know much detail about the training. I also get that there are people out there who are unhappy with the system, perhaps with reason. That said I’m bothered by both the obdurate, non-negotiable reaction (“We know what’s right, and you (Knezovich) need to sit down and listen.”), and the press angle in covering it. I do not think that this trend bodes well for either the future of police training, or for the very communities mentioned in the article as being “suppressed."

Thanks in advance for humoring me.

I think this training would make me want to kill...myself. I've never been a big fan of sitting and listening to lectures, moto, bullshit. If I were a chief/sheriff, before I ever signed my department up for training, I would consider whether it was going to be of value to officers. Seminars like this would be for wheneverything else was squared away.

As far as people dictating to LE agencies what they'll do/train/enforce, they're just sticking in the tip. The real ass fucking hasn't even started.

[TGS]

I think this training would make me want to kill...myself.

It was pretty terrible, when I sat through one of his presentations a few years ago.

The problem is he had some good ideas a couple decades ago that needed to be talked about, and since then he started believing his own hyperbole and building on it. He was so far into left field with ridiculous hyperbole that it absolutely had the opposite effect on the audience. Instead of getting the audience to think about the critical topics in a positive manner, he and his ideas (including the good ones) were written off as bat-shit crazy, because frankly the guy is bat-shit crazy and 90% of what he said was bat-shit crazy.

I'd much rather listen to Kyle Defoor or Jared Reston for mindset talks.

[HCM]

It was pretty terrible, when I sat through one of his presentations a few years ago.

The problem is he had some good ideas a couple decades ago that needed to be talked about, and since then he started believing his own hyperbole and building on it. He was so far into left field with ridiculous hyperbole that it absolutely had the opposite effect on the audience. Instead of getting the audience to think about the critical topics in a positive manner, he and his ideas (including the good ones) were written off as bat-shit crazy, because frankly the guy is bat-shit crazy and 90% of what he said was bat-shit crazy.

I'd much rather listen to Kyle Defoor or Jared Reston for mindset talks.

For reference:

[camel]

It was pretty terrible, when I sat through one of his presentations a few years ago.

The problem is he had some good ideas a couple decades ago that needed to be talked about, and since then he started believing his own hyperbole and building on it. He was so far into left field with ridiculous hyperbole that it absolutely had the opposite effect on the audience. Instead of getting the audience to think about the critical topics in a positive manner, he and his ideas (including the good ones) were written off as bat-shit crazy, because frankly the guy is bat-shit crazy and 90% of what he said was bat-shit crazy.

I'd much rather listen to Kyle Defoor or Jared Reston for mindset talks.

I’m some dude but I would follow this advice. Grossman has these great ideas but that’s all he has.

[HCM]

The only good thing about Grossman is the fact that his "oo-rah" attitude convinces officers to carry off-duty for a couple months before they get lazy again and quit.

And he berates cops for playing Golf. Anyone who is against Golf is not all bad.

[camel]

And he berates cops for playing Golf. Anyone who is against Golf is not all bad.

Golf is nothing but a waste of a good gun range.

[HCM]

Golf is nothing but a waste of a good gun range.

More specifically Grossman portrays LE using their off duty time for Golf vs Shooting, Jujitsu, fitness etc as immorally abrogating their responsibilities.

[AMC]

More specifically Grossman portrays LE using their off duty time for Golf vs Shooting, Jujitsu, fitness etc as immorally abrogating their responsibilities.

Which is one of his "things" I actually agree with.

[TGS]

More specifically Grossman portrays LE using their off duty time for Golf vs Shooting, Jujitsu, fitness etc as immorally abrogating their responsibilities.