Looking for another opinion: Sheriff v activists re: Grossman

[Totem Polar]

The deal is this: our local sheriff—who I’ve met—is sponsoring a multi-agency Dave Grossman seminar. The cancel culture is out in force on this one, including a petition with 4k signatures demanding that the sheriff cancel the training. I’d ask folks, who are willing, to read the article; I’m looking for extra sets of eyes to check—and develop—my own feelings on this. I think that there’s a lot going on in between the lines in this article, and I’m bothered by the whole thrust of it.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...lology-traini/

Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich said this week he won’t cancel a controversial “Killology” police training session planned later this year, even as public backlash against it continues to mount.


I appreciate opinions from LE on this. Up front, I don’t know much detail about the training. I also get that there are people out there who are unhappy with the system, perhaps with reason. That said I’m bothered by both the obdurate, non-negotiable reaction (“We know what’s right, and you (Knezovich) need to sit down and listen.”), and the press angle in covering it. I do not think that this trend bodes well for either the future of police training, or for the very communities mentioned in the article as being “suppressed."

Thanks in advance for humoring me.

[Poconnor]

Read grossman’s books. Personally I found On Combat a much more useful book.

[jetfire]

I support the protesters, but not because they're right, but because Dave Grossman is a hack. The dude has zero combat deployments, zero meaningful trigger time, things violent video games desensitize people to killing, and generally sucks.

If I want to learn about the psychology of killing/violence, I'll just call someone who has actually done those things.

[vcdgrips]

jetfire et al.

Does Grossman explicitly and conspicuously disclose his lack of experience in those lanes in his books and/or lectures?

[Totem Polar]

I support the protesters, but not because they're right, but because Dave Grossman is a hack. The dude has zero combat deployments, zero meaningful trigger time, things violent video games desensitize people to killing, and generally sucks.

If I want to learn about the psychology of killing/violence, I'll just call someone who has actually done those things.

Now, I can get behind a criticism of the quality of training if that’s an issue, no problem. Somehow, I don’t think this is a about questioning Grossman’s creds.

[JAD]

Does Grossman explicitly and conspicuously disclose his lack of experience in those lanes in his books and/or lectures?

Isn’t honest incompetence the same as dishonest incompetence in effect?

[vcdgrips]

JAD

Perhaps in effect.

But if one is open, honest and explicit about ones’s experiences or lack thereof, we can make a more informed choice re how we spend our time, talent and treasure.

[jetfire]

Now, I can get behind a criticism of the quality of training if that’s an issue, no problem. Somehow, I don’t think this is a about questioning Grossman’s creds.

Oh yeah no, the protesters are totally shitty, but hey - cancelling Grossman is a net positive, so I'll take wins where I can get them.

[Mark D]

I've read a few of Grossman's books. After further study, I think he's largely ignorant of his subject matter, but that hasn't stopped him from making a handsome profit peddling his ideas. Critiques of his work are easy to find, so I won't reiterate them here.

I think the Sheriff would be far better off bringing in Mike Panone or Kyle DeFoor, or any number of smart guys with, you know, actual experience in the subject.

[Trooper224]

I have a strong dislike for Grossman. His entire premise was originally formed based upon the false information authored by Gen. S.L.A. Marshal. His doctrine is a bullshit foundation that he's built an entire sheepdog cult around.

I don't support the protesters because their intent isn't built from a concern for proper police training, but from an overall hatred of police. On the other hand, I wish the sheriff would do his due diligence before inviting a hack like Grossman into his world.