Who are these guys in Provo?

[Trooper224]

I'm sure some will disagree and if so, you do you bro. However, in my opinion when you show up at a civil protest looking like that, you come off like a hammer in search of a nail. You look like the problem not the solution. In my mind these guys are no different than Chad and Karen Cul de Sac.

[HCM]

I'm sure some will disagree and if so, you do you bro. However, in my opinion when you show up at a civil protest looking like that, you come off like a hammer in search of a nail. You look like the problem not the solution. In my mind these guys are no different than Chad and Karen Cul de Sac.

In general I agree with you.

In this specific case, the large number of "counter protestors" of which this group was only a small part, came out in response to an Incident two days earlier in Provo in which an unrelated third party made a wrong turn into a BLM/Antifa protest two days prior and was shot by protestors with handguns. It is posted in the Shooting Incidents in the news thread.

[MistWolf]

Attachment 56801

Heh! I meant that the church itself doesn't have a private militia- unless you count the security used to protect the General Authorities & the President and such. The guy I know that was part of the security detail was there as part of his duties as a police officer.

I won't say there aren't any militias formed by Mormons. We're not much different- no better, no worse- than any other group of people.

[TGS]

Heh! I meant that the church itself doesn't have a private militia- unless you count the security used to protect the General Authorities & the President and such. The guy I know that was part of the security detail was there as part of his duties as a police officer.

I won't say there aren't any militias formed by Mormons. We're not much different- no better, no worse- than any other group of people.

Very different in the sense that Mormons are the largest group of Caucasian Americans that still share some sort of community.

That, and as others have noted Mormons are over-represented in government service....in particular the military, intelligence, and diplomatic community.

I personally have a hard time believing that such a group as described that also requires a secret-handshake through a curtain and has a tradition of duty of "prepping" (for lack of a better word, ignore the pop-culture connotation) doesn't also have an organized militia network texting each other on Signal.

[TAZ]

I'm sure some will disagree and if so, you do you bro. However, in my opinion when you show up at a civil protest looking like that, you come off like a hammer in search of a nail. You look like the problem not the solution. In my mind these guys are no different than Chad and Karen Cul de Sac.

There is a lot of wisdom there, unfortunately there is no way to know when said civil protest turn into violent mobs looting and burning these days. Lots of cities have tried the stay away and hope for the best routine and got interesting results. A group of these imbeciles shot up a car the other day, so its not like the idea of a protest turning violent is a far out stretch of the imagination.

I would 100% prefer that the local police be there in FORCE to insure that things stay peaceful. But then I'm sure someone would argue that the police presence was what kicked off any violence, cause you know there are always excuses for stupid behavior.

The sad part is that there is no right answer. Police stay away and the looting/burning begins. Once it begins and gets out of control getting control back is pretty hard and nobody in elected office has the balls for it. Police show up in force and its oppression. Counter protestors show up and its white supremacy booger eaters or whatever...

So what are communities supposed to do? Let them kill and destroy things and hope insurance covers it?

Maybe being more discrete would have been a better option, kind of like Open Carry vs Concealed carry.

I wish our elected officials would do their damned jobs and not pass the buck back into the hands of the folks paying their salaries to these jobs... But then I guess I have unrealistic expectations these days.

[Trooper224]

There is a lot of wisdom there, unfortunately there is no way to know when said civil protest turn into violent mobs looting and burning these days. Lots of cities have tried the stay away and hope for the best routine and got interesting results. A group of these imbeciles shot up a car the other day, so its not like the idea of a protest turning violent is a far out stretch of the imagination.

I would 100% prefer that the local police be there in FORCE to insure that things stay peaceful. But then I'm sure someone would argue that the police presence was what kicked off any violence, cause you know there are always excuses for stupid behavior.

The sad part is that there is no right answer. Police stay away and the looting/burning begins. Once it begins and gets out of control getting control back is pretty hard and nobody in elected office has the balls for it. Police show up in force and its oppression. Counter protestors show up and its white supremacy booger eaters or whatever...

So what are communities supposed to do? Let them kill and destroy things and hope insurance covers it?

Maybe being more discrete would have been a better option, kind of like Open Carry vs Concealed carry.

I wish our elected officials would do their damned jobs and not pass the buck back into the hands of the folks paying their salaries to these jobs... But then I guess I have unrealistic expectations these days.

You've touched on my main concern with these activities. You can be more discreet and still be effectively armed. You don't have to jock up like a bunch of rangerninja dudes. Armed police are no deterrent to these people. Does anyone honestly think showing up with the bromilitia is going to yield a better result? As I've said before, when I see this kind of thing, it doesn't give me the impression of "concerned citizens". It looks more like everyone on both sides of the issue are using it as an excuse to rock out with their man toys, without much concern over the consequences.

[TGS]

Armed police are no deterrent to these people. Does anyone honestly think showing up with the bromilitia is going to yield a better result?

Not disagreeing with the rest of what you said, and I generally agree that people who show up kitted out to 1st Amendment events tend to be looking for attention rather than any actual virtuous purpose.

However, cops are the model of restraint, and that's why people get inches from them and talk shit, wave their hands, and blow smoke in their face. I haven't seen a trend of people doing that to right-wing or libertarian militia groups, because they're not a model of restraint. The former, you generally know you're safe....the latter is a dangerous move, because you know that pulling the same shit you would with the police is going to spiral out of control by people who are not artificially restrained.

[MistWolf]

Very different in the sense that Mormons are the largest group of Caucasian Americans that still share some sort of community.

That, and as others have noted Mormons are over-represented in government service....in particular the military, intelligence, and diplomatic community.

I personally have a hard time believing that such a group as described that also requires a secret-handshake through a curtain and has a tradition of duty of "prepping" (for lack of a better word, ignore the pop-culture connotation) doesn't also have an organized militia network texting each other on Signal.

Mormons love getting organized. Everything from rounding up a few brethren to help a widow with yard work to setting up a network and training for disaster preparedness at home or abroad. It's why I would turn to the ward members instead of "bugging out" if there were any kind of emergency. Mormons already have a plan in place for providing manpower, supplies & shelter.

PS- Most of the members I know don't care if the brothers and sisters are Caucasian or not.

[Trooper224]

Not disagreeing with the rest of what you said, and I generally agree that people who show up kitted out to 1st Amendment events tend to be looking for attention rather than any actual virtuous purpose.

However, cops are the model of restraint, and that's why people get inches from them and talk shit, wave their hands, and blow smoke in their face. I haven't seen a trend of people doing that to right-wing or libertarian militia groups, because they're not a model of restraint. The former, you generally know you're safe....the latter is a dangerous move, because you know that pulling the same shit you would with the police is going to spiral out of control by people who are not artificially restrained.

You make a good point about reaction to LE presence. However, I don't know about people being less inclined to mess with armed militia types. We know criminals aren't intimidated by open carry and our common opinion is, it's for morons. Is open carry grande any better? After all, how many incidents do we have of people dressed like this preventing violence? All of this is (fortunately) rather uncharted territory in our country. I don't think we have any kind of statistical data to support it one way or the other. What I do know is that people can convince themselves of anything. If you show up often enough looking like you're looking for trouble, sooner or later you'll find it, even if you have to manufacture it yourself.

I guess what really gets under my skin about all of this is, it seems as if everyone has forgotten how to act like grownups.

[BehindBlueI's]

Armed police are no deterrent to these people.

I gotta agree with TGS on this one. They know the police will play by the rules, mostly, and if they don't there's the lawsuit lottery to win. They don't *really* believe the cops are unhinged murderers or they wouldn't act like they do. Random assholes are random, though, and random and unpredictable is scarier.

It's not the path I would take, but I also understand the argument of not ceding the field. Unfortunately it just continues the balkanization. I'd rather see efforts like primary-ing out shitbird mayors and prosecutors then showing up in your cammies, but maybe they are doing both. Probably not, but maybe.