My son just left to see Navy recruiter.

[BigD]

I don't know any brand new x-rays off the top of my head, but I know that the pipeline in the last few years was definitely enlist w/ 18X contract -> infantry OSUT -> airborne -> SFAS. My only guess as to how someone was reclassed after starting off on the 18X contract is because they failed OSUT.

When I went through, SOPC 1 and SOPC 2 were before and after SFAS, respectively. It's been a while, and I haven't kept up with the changes.

Can you even fail OSUT and get a second chance in a different AIT?

But yeah, the reclass thing as JRB tells it only makes sense if whatever prevented him from going to SFAS also prevented him from being in the Infantry (even though he would already been an five-jump 11B), but didn't preclude him from being a refueler. I'm guessing being a "Petroleum Supply Specialist" isn't exactly high-speed, but I doubt they want pre-diabetics refueling helos any more than they want them in the infantry. So yeah.

[BigD]

Before I was pulled for my last deployment, I was a platoon daddy with 33 assigned - so I'm hardly new to how Soldiers love to BS around their weaknesses when they fail.

The particular case I cited is absolutely 100% true and I saw the paperwork to back it up because I dealt with the Soldier personally when he in-processed into my old unit. He was understandably sour at the Army because he had the integrity to fully disclose everything he knew and he got burned for it. I strongly doubt he would have failed the Q course, he was motivated, put up 325-335 extended scale scores on his APFT and had a 114 GT. He was awarded the 11B MOS but was sent to reclass at Ft Lee due to 'needs of the Army'.
Punishing compete honesty is a deeply rooted cultural problem we have across the entire DoD that needs to get unfucked, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea of where to begin to truly fix it.

That said, it sucks that someone didn't tell this troop to cool it on family history stuff and play dumb, but he got off-ramped because of it.
@TGS's assessment of 'only so many slots and have to wash out X number of bodies' parses with my own experience on how the Army does other shit similar to this, and that is routinely at odds with what is actually needed at the unit level.

It all makes sense now, except...

-family history of diabetes isn't a disqualfying condition as far as I can tell.
-SF needs as many good soldiers as it can get, so it doesn't need to capriciously or whimsically drop people because of excess numbers. Much has been made of this. This is not the case of the Marine Corp having too many people wanting to be fighter pilots than they have planes.
-if they wanted to reduce the number of 18xrays in the pipeline (and they don't), SOPC cadre have ways to get rid of duds instead of ginning up med issues to drop would-be studs before they've had a chance to prove themselves. See pic below.



-the SF physical is done before SFAS, so if he had a precluding med issue, he wouldn't have washed out of Selection as you said. (This is somewhat semantics. He could have been removed from the 18x pipeline sometime before going to SFAS for a med condition, but that's not washing out of Selection.)

-

-You discourage anyone from signing an 18x contract based on this and unspecified other anecdotes. But if the dude's med history precluded SF, it's going to preclude him from Ranger Regiment too, one would think.

[SeriousStudent]

JohnO - bless your son for his desire to serve, and I wish him the very best of luck in his quest.

As an old broken down crayon-eater, it does my heart good to see young men and women step forward.

[JRB]

It all makes sense now, except...

-family history of diabetes isn't a disqualfying condition as far as I can tell.
-SF needs as many good soldiers as it can get, so it doesn't need to capriciously or whimsically drop people because of excess numbers. Much has been made of this. This is not the case of the Marine Corp having too many people wanting to be fighter pilots than they have planes.
-if they wanted to reduce the number of 18xrays in the pipeline (and they don't), SOPC cadre have ways to get rid of duds instead of ginning up med issues to drop would-be studs before they've had a chance to prove themselves. See pic below.

-the SF physical is done before SFAS, so if he had a precluding med issue, he wouldn't have washed out of Selection as you said. (This is somewhat semantics. He could have been removed from the 18x pipeline sometime before going to SFAS for a med condition, but that's not washing out of Selection.)

-

-You discourage anyone from signing an 18x contract based on this and unspecified other anecdotes. But if the dude's med history precluded SF, it's going to preclude him from Ranger Regiment too, one would think.

Image isn't showing for me.

Your assessment is the same as mine. Overall it doesn't make sense.
But he had plenty of documents showing a lot of cadre pushing for him to be retained, and even two of his drill sgt's wrote letters of rec to keep him in the program. But he got cut and reclassed and that was that. I don't know exactly at what stage he was officially cut, he told me he got his jump wings and less than a week later he was packing his shit to reclass to 92F with a bunch of AIT brats at Ft Lee.
The whole situation reeked of bean counting bullshit, or he somehow managed to piss off someone very high up in that system. Nothing else adds up. But the rest of his record was squeaky clean.

Yes, it's an egregious example and atypical of what one can expect of an 18X enlistment, but I stand by what I said given the context.

[BigD]

Image isn't showing for me.

Your assessment is the same as mine. Overall it doesn't make sense.
But he had plenty of documents showing a lot of cadre pushing for him to be retained, and even two of his drill sgt's wrote letters of rec to keep him in the program. But he got cut and reclassed and that was that. I don't know exactly at what stage he was officially cut, he told me he got his jump wings and less than a week later he was packing his shit to reclass to 92F with a bunch of AIT brats at Ft Lee.
The whole situation reeked of bean counting bullshit, or he somehow managed to piss off someone very high up in that system. Nothing else adds up. But the rest of his record was squeaky clean.

Yes, it's an egregious example and atypical of what one can expect of an 18X enlistment, but I stand by what I said given the context.

I hear you. The Big Army (or the Army and Military in general) doesn't always operate logically. He wouldn't be the first guy that got screwed. Won't be the last.

I'll quit harping on this but will say despite what may have happened to the stud above - SFAS if rather egalitarian in the sense that if you meet the requirements you can try out and can't be blocked by your home unit. If you pass, you are getting orders to the Q Course. (If that was allowed, the 82nd/101st/every other unit would try to stop losing a lot of their top guys to SF by not letting them attend.)

We had a lot of former Marines in the Q Course. They would always be asked if they had been Recon or Force Recon (this was pre-MARSOC). A few had been but most said they wanted to try out but there were no open slots or their command had not allowed it, etc.

Like I said, I won't belabor the point any more and will get this thread go back to where it was.

----------

Best of luck to the OP's son.

[Shawn Dodson]

When I was working aboard USS Maine couple of years ago there was a sailor who was dropped from BUDS due to an injury. He was allowed to pick his career path after being dropped. He chose to become a Missile Tech aboard an Ohio class submarine. He got extensive training and was an E4 in no time. If he'd been a "Mo" drop (motivation) or tapped out he probably would've been shitcanned to the surface fleet.

If I was wanting to be a SEAL I'd enlist in the Marine Corps and then volunteer for SEALs in boot camp. If I were to washout of BUDS then I'd still have the opportunity go Recon or MARSOC.

Best wishes for your son!

[rcbusmc24]

When I was working aboard USS Maine couple of years ago there was a sailor who was dropped from BUDS due to an injury. He was allowed to pick his career path after being dropped. He chose to become a Missile Tech aboard an Ohio class submarine. He got extensive training and was an E4 in no time. If he'd been a "Mo" drop (motivation) or tapped out he probably would've been shitcanned to the surface fleet.

If I was wanting to be a SEAL I'd enlist in the Marine Corps and then volunteer for SEALs in boot camp. If I were to washout of BUDS then I'd still have the opportunity go Recon or MARSOC.

Best wishes for your son!

You can't be a Marine and go to BUDS... Not a path for that....Navy SARC (Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsmen) Corpsmen who do not make it through BUDS have a chance to still go to Recon or into MARSOC as a enabler. Marines go directly from boot camp to ITB, then to either the fleet as a regular dude, or BRC (Basic Reconnaissance Course) for Recon. Then after two to three years, doesn't matter if they were regular or recon, typically after that first deployment is over or around the time to reenlist a guy can put in a package to screen for MARSOC. There is no direct from the street way into that unit.

[JclInAtx]

This is a standard Navy scraper/chipping hammer:

Attachment 56685

If he goes into the Navy, the chances are that he will become intimately familiar with using one.

I read the headline and immediately thought of your post. Apparently they may be soon blasting paint off hulls using laser beams https://nypost.com/2020/07/10/lasers...int-off-ships/

[JohnO]

My son recently completed some form of online ASVAB practice test that his recruiter gave him a code to take. Apparently the results go to the recruiter. The recruiter called my son and told him he "crushed the test and is qualified for any job he wants in the military".

He has been out every morning training with his friend/co-worker and they are taking turns alternating days with one 50 lb weighted vest.

I continue to talk to him about sitting down with other branches of the military to see what they have to offer.

Mom finally knows and she is okay with his decision. At the moment her only concern is who he would be serving under (November election).

[Odin Bravo One]

Wow.