How to get a Reliable Hard Use 1911?

[GlorifiedMailman]

It in the section titled special. $1600 on you supplied Colt.

I think I see it, the Colt XSE/MARS package? Will they work on a new production non-XSE Colt (such as a new production Series 70 Government Model)? I just emailed them to find out, but I'm wondering if they'll only do that on the XSE/Rail Gun. Thanks for turning me on to this.

[GlorifiedMailman]

My Sams full build .45 runs and runs with minimum TLC like one of my Glocks. Dave Sams.

My Sams tuned 9mm Operator is almost, not quite, almost as reliable. But . . . 9mm one inch 50 yard gun with a very heavy slide to work.

My Wilson CQB Elite .45 seems the equal to the Sams gun for running. I realize there are some with bad luck with those semi-customs.

I'm fortunate to have had two TRPs and an LB Operator that run like the customs.

A close friend just got a Colt worked over by Derr Precision and it is spectacular. Greg Derr is on my short list for getting work done.

I just looked into Derr Precision and it seems promising. I was wanting to stick with who DocGKR would recommend but I realize all those seem to be non-options. Even with the ones still in business like Cylinder & Slide, I don't think Bill Laughridge is doing the work himself anymore. I will also look into Dave Sams. Thanks for the knowledge.

[Totem Polar]

In my experience, Springfield and RRA did these things decently except the springs and the extractor tension

I want to pull this sentence out of a bunch of excellent context. The Rock River and the Springfields I’ve had have all been like this, and very reliable.

I‘m always reluctant to chime in on 1911 threads, because #1, I’m no expert compared to many here, and #2, I know that what I’ll say next will have some folks looking at me like I have all the dicks growing out of my forehead. That said, I’m currently toting a Springer Mil-Spec that is literally box-stock, save for wolff springs, a Wilson bulletproof extractor, and a Wilson firing pin stop. The extractor is a serious step up over the stock SA deal; looking at them both under magnification indicates that they really aren’t the same thing. I seat-of-the-pants tensioned the Wilson using a live cartridge per Jason Burton’s video tutorial.

At any rate, this Springer has been absolutely 100 percent with both 4 brands of ball and 230GDHP using a pile of metalform 7-rounders. This is coming from a guy who’s had a few malfs with multiple Glocks in training, including a gen3 17 and a G45–to say nothing of the single stack Glocks. I’d take a used $450 Mil-Spec with new springs and a Wilson extractor over a G36 all week long.

Somebody says this every 1911 thread, so I might as well take my turn: if one wants Ferrari fit and finish, and can afford it, absolutely. There is a lot to be said for the extra performance, speed, comfort, smoothness, pleasure, feedback, tracking... all of that is absolutely tangible value, but that doesn’t mean it’ll drive across the state any more *reliably* than a Hyundai Elantra that’s been regularly maintained and lubed. JMO.

[GlorifiedMailman]

So, the real question is, are you asking the right question?

You want a 1911, so I'm assuming you're looking for precision and accuracy as your primary goal. That means a gun built to the tightest possible standards to eek out every little fraction of an inch of mechanical accuracy. Tight tolerances are less forgiving of abuse - specifically for things like the 2,000 round challenge run as intended with NO cleaning or lubrication during the challenge.

This is like asking for a humble, friendly supermodel who doesn't mind you leaving her at home every weekend while you go out hunting, shooting and fishing.

In my experience, Springfield guns are too tight for their own good. My RO is about 1,500 rounds into the challenge right now, but when I first received it, I literally had to use a cheater tube over the bushing wrench to disassemble it. That's excessive. My experience with Colts from the late 1980s until about 2000 was that not a single one of them ran worth a shit, so I basically quit buying Colts altogether.

On the other hand, I've got a pair of DWs, a 9mm Guardian and a .45 ACP CCO, and both run like raped apes. They're WAY more accurate than I am, and I can't get either of them to bobble no matter what I feed them. Both have gone through multiple range trips with 200+ rounds per trip with no maintenance, lube, or malfunctions, so, frankly, I'm perfectly OK with that. I don't give a shit if they'd go 2,000 rounds - because in the real world, through multiple deployments in multiple conflicts, I've NEVER had to run ANY firearm through multiple thousands of rounds with no maintenance or lube.

Quit worrying about a specific number or "challenge," and worry about what you shoot well that will get you through you're most stringent shooting need. For me, the worst abuse I've EVER given any pistol was shooting about 1,000 rounds per day for multiple days in training. But, I still had time to field strip, wipe the rails, relube, and pull a snake through the bore even on those days...

Actually, Glock-like reliability is far more important to me than mechanical accuracy. I'm not looking to get a bullseye shooter, but a hard use carry piece to use in high round count classes as well. I have discovered that even standard 1911's like factory Colt Gov't Models and Springfield Loaded's shoot better for me than just about anything else. I find even rack grade 1911's to be incredibly easy to shoot well. However, none so far have proven reliable enough for me to consider for serious use.

I shouldn't have referred to my requirement as being "meet the 2k rounds challenge", because that requires no cleaning or maintenance. What I desire is a 1911 that can routinely and easily go at least 2k rounds between stoppages, but with normal cleaning/lubing at reasonable intervals. Yes I would like it to be able to go 2k rounds without cleaning/lube, but far more important to me is just being able to go 2k rounds without a stoppage assuming normal cleaning/lubrication.

In other words, a 1911 which would be considered reliable/durable enough for serious use by people who's knowledge I have learned from about 1911s for serious use. DocGKR specifically has shaped what I consider the requirements to be for a 1911 for serious use. I wonder what he would recommend to an individual (not an entire department) in 2020 wanting a serious use 1911.

[psalms144.1]

Actually, Glock-like reliability is far more important to me than mechanical accuracy. I'm not looking to get a bullseye shooter, but a hard use carry piece to use in high round count classes as well.

I shouldn't have referred to my requirement as being "meet the 2k rounds challenge", because that requires no cleaning or maintenance. What I desire is a 1911 that can routinely and easily go at least 2k rounds between stoppages, but with normal cleaning/lubing at reasonable intervals. Yes I would like it to be able to go 2k rounds without cleaning/lube, but far more important to me is just being able to go 2k rounds without a stoppage assuming normal cleaning/lubrication.

In other words, a 1911 which would be considered reliable/durable enough for serious use by people who's knowledge I have learned from about 1911s for serious use. DocGKR specifically has shaped what I consider the requirements to be for a 1911 for serious use. I wonder what he would recommend to an individual (not an entire department) in 2020 wanting a serious use 1911.

Dan Wesson 5" .45 ACP or Commander length 9mm. Either will EASILY go multiple thousands of rounds with routine maintenance and mainspring replacement as needed. I paid $950 for the Guardian (used, off a very nice forum member) and $800ish for my CCO off Gunbroker. Go wild with a Valor off GB for $1200ish, and try to break it!

[Trooper224]

Dan Wesson 5" .45 ACP or Commander length 9mm. Either will EASILY go multiple thousands of rounds with routine maintenance and mainspring replacement as needed. I paid $950 for the Guardian (used, off a very nice forum member) and $800ish for my CCO off Gunbroker. Go wild with a Valor off GB for $1200ish, and try to break it!

This.

[JHC]

I just looked into Derr Precision and it seems promising. I was wanting to stick with who DocGKR would recommend but I realize all those seem to be non-options. Even with the ones still in business like Cylinder & Slide, I don't think Bill Laughridge is doing the work himself anymore. I will also look into Dave Sams. Thanks for the knowledge.

One thing that to me is just cool AF is Greg Derr himself was an accomplished precision shooter in his own right based on his interesting bio on his site.

[theJanitor]

What base gun should I start with, and who would I be able to send it off to?

If you decide to go custom, always start with the 'smith. Talk to several of them and tell them your needs, concerns, and ideas. Not every smith is suited for every job. After you and the smith agree on how you want a pistol built, then agree on a base pistol. Then you just have to trust the process. The biggest mistake I see people make, when commissioning a custom, is to tell the expert what to do.

One thing to look for is a "reliability" package. This is the basic level package that ensures each critical part of the gun, with regards to reliability, is addressed. Add on accuracy/ergo/aesthetic options from there, with the clarification from the builder that reliability won't be compromised with those choices. The finished product is so much more, but at it's core, the THUG is a reliability package

To be honest, It's pretty easy in 2020 to get a reliable 1911, even from factory sources. You do have to reasonably define "reliability" for yourself, and go from there.

[JHC]

Actually, Glock-like reliability is far more important to me than mechanical accuracy.

yeah that was me too until I was baptized by the fusion of stupid precision and reliability. It don't come cheap though.

The other guy on my short list is Alchemy https://alchemy1911.com/

Way smarter than me have said his guns are still underpriced but won't be forever. Now he doesn't tune your gun. He builds a small set of models and you get to pick from a few little tweaks like sights or trigger or grips etc. Helluva strong reputation though.

[19852+]

My example of one Colt .38 super auto has navigated the 2000 round challenge 3 times. First time with factory ammo taught me that magazines make a difference and that a modest throat and feed ramp polish is a good idea Also lube, as in good lube and not Frog lube. Second time with my reloads taught me springs are important as in don't mess with success. Full power main and a #15 Wilson flat wire are my formula. Another tip; no powder puff loads if you want reliability, this goes hand in hand with good springs. On my third time around I took almost two years. One blown case head [super face anybody?] technically a stoppage but not the guns fault. I pounded it apart because I was in the middle of a competition and in the process lost a lot of lube but with a ammo change it kept going [the mag didn't..] .
It's well worn but it runs now with a Brown drop in 9mm barrel along with the .22 top end. No other mods to get it to function with 9mm other than genuine 9mm mags. Super mags work but not as reliable as dedicated 9mm mags.

I treat it like some treat their Glock, not purposely abused but not babied either. I'm cleaning it a little more frequently than once every two years now, seriously it was filthy.