Suggestions for getting into mid range in DFW?

[Crews]

What works for me up here might not work so hot in Texas.

Anything below alpha glass quality is completely useless above about 15x down here in the Texas heat. The mirage gets just downright soupy. My 4-16 ATACR has never left me wanting more mag. And I tried a 6-24 Kahles; it just wasn’t worth the size penalty for what I’m doing.

But there are just as many people that would rather have it even if they don’t need it too often. It’s a very personal decision, and you’re right that training/trying out some stuff first is money well spent.


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[Wise_A]

We get mirage in the summer--90 degrees with high humidity, shooting over open, dry fields. I don't find the Vortex too bad, but I'll also note that barrel mirage gets pretty bad shooting in the winter. Twenty or thirty rounds and the barrel has to cool. I'd already have made a shade for it, but I want it to color match / look cool, not just have some Venetian taped on my gun.

And also by comparison, an ATACR is what I'd budget for a nice rifle Which is kind've another point--you can always sell on a really good optic without taking a terrible hit, or move it to another rifle. Nobody really wants to mess with a used rifle. And optics prices have been generally trending up, not down.

[Oukaapie]

To confirm FFP not needed? Illuminated not needed? Burris XTR 2, Vortex PST, Nightforce SHV are all good, safe options?

BTW - I still think in metric so will be going Mil. Inches and yards make no sense to me....I still battle with Fahrenheit too.

[ranger]

I have the PRS bug. My two competition rifles are Burris XTR II FFP 5-15 MRAD - I like them very much. I have multiple Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 FFP/SFP - 2-10, 4-16, 6-24 - all MIL. They get the job done to 1100 yards.

[SeriousStudent]

To confirm FFP not needed? Illuminated not needed? Burris XTR 2, Vortex PST, Nightforce SHV are all good, safe options?

BTW - I still think in metric so will be going Mil. Inches and yards make no sense to me....I still battle with Fahrenheit too.

I have a Vortex Viper PST Gen I 4-16 mil/mil I'll let you borrow for a bit.

[Wise_A]

To confirm FFP not needed? Illuminated not needed? Burris XTR 2, Vortex PST, Nightforce SHV are all good, safe options?

BTW - I still think in metric so will be going Mil. Inches and yards make no sense to me....I still battle with Fahrenheit too.

Personally, I would not buy a SFP scope any more, FFP all the way. I don't hunt, I regularly hold over, or click elevation and hold for wind, and I tend to use the higher ends of my magnification.

Illumination--I used to think it was a gimmick on cheap scopes circa 2000, but I use it. A lot. Sometimes targets are heavily-shaded (many of our ranges up here are bordered by forest). Sometimes I'm shooting in mid-January under heavy cloud cover, or even in a medium-ish snowstorm.

MIL vs MOA...you could start a threadnought on it by itself. Already having a scope or a buddy with a scope marked in MIL or MOA might swing the decision. Personally, I find my MIL optics somewhat irritating on a range with targets in yards, but the math is not really that bad and I'm just a baby about it. Click adjustments are very slightly more coarse with a .1MIL adjustment vs a .25MOA (.36"/click @ vs .25"/click) but that's not a huge deal. You'll be fine with MIL.

[Crews]

BTW - I still think in metric so will be going Mil. Inches and yards make no sense to me....I still battle with Fahrenheit too.

Milrad is living right anyhow. It doesn’t really matter what unit of measure you think in when you’ve got a calibrated ruler 3” in front of your face at all times.

Never the less, the numbers are smaller and on-the-fly math is much easier. I can double or half a decimal place wind hold much faster than the mind fuck of doing the same with fractions. Also, rules of thumb are cool and easy with mils.

For example, the wind/mph rule. Basically, the first number of your bullet’s G1 BC is usually the “MPH” gun you have. For instance, 175 SMK has G1 of .505 so it’s probably a 5mph gun. So..... with a 5mph full value wind the hold would be a tenth of the distance to target in yards. (0.3mil at 300 yards, 0.4 at 400 yards, etc.). You can guess how easy it is from there to come up with a quick wind hold.


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[TOTS]

You are getting some good advice from this thread. To pick out some wisdom:
-spending most of the budget on glass is better than rifle

- definitely better to have a higher quality glass than the one with the most magnification. (Good rule of thumb is about 1.5 magnification for each 100m is a nice workable range from good glass; more is better but too much is worse).

- FFP is really the best option for most precision style shooting. You already know if you are the shooter that needs SFP

-Mils vs MOA; mils is the most universal. If you shoot with others or have a spotter, I would just match reticles. The MUST is having turrets and reticles match.

-priority for a scope is 1) repeatability of turrets (or the accuracies in the reticle if you only hold) 2. Glass quality 3. Features such as illumination. The overall durability of it to not break or lose zero is a given.

- again, hate to sound like a snob, but the Strike Eagle, I just wouldn’t. The PST is where you stop in the Vortex lines. It’s a very good features/ price value. Also good is the Bushnell DMR. If you can get a gen 2 or even 1 DMR for sub $800-1K, that’s probably the best value option. Bushnell DMR, Burris XTR, Vortex PST; those are your best bets for entry level lines that will also last or be able to resold. If you ever want to upgrade, you end up stuck with shit scopes.

-Tikka is a great option over a custom action. Decide what features are important to YOU and how you shoot. Ie, a T3 in a KRG Bravo chassis and stock CTR are both about the same price and just as good. Just different.

-saving budget for ancillaries is also needed. It’s frustrating to not have confidence in your high dollar setup since the $30 bipod is flexing or your Amazon Chinese rings Are letting the scope slip.

-Spend the money the first time. Instead of buying that $30 bipod, shoot off a pack for a while until you can save for a quality bipod

-there is wisdom in spending money on good instruction. A good instructor will help you only buy what you need and be able to help you avoid wasting money. Ultimately the ammunition will be the most expensive part of the package. It’s easy to save +$100 in ammo costs by having a pro teaching you things like zeroing or finding errors and issues quickly.

[Crews]

Personally, I find my MIL optics somewhat irritating on a range with targets in yards, but the math is not really that bad and I'm just a baby about it.

What math are you talking about here? I shoot mils and I reference all my ranges in yards. There are dozens of free solvers that can be used, and they all use metric/standard interchangeably however you’d like. Unless I’m missing something there shouldn’t be any need for conversions unless you’re just a glutton for punishment.


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[entropy]

Thought this was a “location” thread...I’ll toss in my .02 FWIW...which is nothing.

I’m just a high drag/slow speed nobody. I took up the long range sport as a way to relax and fiddle. I enjoy aerodynamics, physics, and monkey level math. I have two buddies that are about the same and we get together a half dozen times a year or so when the weather is good and shoot out to 1K+ on steel. In the meantime, I fiddle, tune, reload, and hit the short range. Been playing almost 10 years at it now.

Observations. Not advice. Here we go....

I started with a AR platform in .223. I believe this was a mistake now. Too many variables with the AR (upper/lower fit, semi auto, barrel/receiver fit etc) While a .223 may be easy to load blaster level ammo in, when it comes to precision reloading it’s advanced level. Things are small...bullets, cases, etc. Charges are small and a little variance in charge weight is a bigger % and the inaccuracies are magnified. Wind effects the lighter bullets more. Hard to tell if you suck, it’s windy, or a dozen other variables.

Smartest thing I ever did was buy a Remington 700 5R MilSpec in .308. That’s when I began to learn. Easier to load. Action stable and time tested. Some may poo-poo about Remington, long throats on the 5R’s and a zillion other things...but they work. It began life with a simple 10x fixed Bushnell. Then went to Vortex. That’s currently my glass of choice. Quality is good, warranty is beyond question (no...I’ve never had to use mine and I have 4 of them) and they are semi local for me. Prices on glass are whatever you are willing to pay. I found the PST and Razor series my happy place.

.308 allows you to reload and experiment to your hearts content. The number of bullets by various manufacturers in .308 number in the hundreds. Same with powder. I settled on Varget and RE15. There are countless others. That’s half the fun in my opinion. If you choose not to reload in the beginning or not at all, .308 (under normal conditions) is pretty easy to locate. Quite a few proven performers sold in 20rd boxes.The info for hand loading is voluminous. Charge weights in the 40-50gr region which allows plenty of practice per pound of powder. Things are bigger and easier to handle.

Given the right loads, bullets and atmospherics, it can easily get you to 1000yds. I do it regularly in warmer weather. Sub zero...notsomuch. It kicks more than a .223, but it is more forgiving in every area. It’s a good trainer for both larger stuff, and smaller. I’ve settled on .308 and .300wm.

Nothing wrong with a decent stock. The 700 came with an HS Precision. I later upgraded both the Remington and my Stiller WinMag to KRG Bravo chassis. Just this week I turned around and sold the SA chassis. Put the HS Precision back on. I found the chassis to be cumbersome and out of place on the .308. Ran it for about 2 years like that. I might do the same with the Stiller. I still have the M24 stock for that too.

It’s easy to get carried away on advice. Keep it simple. Spend your own money. Upgrade as you go. As you improve (pick an area) you will find what you like...whether it’s glass, stocks, reloading dies...you’ll find your happy place. It most likely will be different than lot of advice you get.

Enjoy. I’ve found it to be one of the most relaxing and technologically complex things I’ve toyed with outside my day job. Don’t get too wrapped up and keep an open mind to learn.

Oh yea...edit to add. I use MOA. It’s really no big deal. My mind works better with it, and you get to the same place at the end. It’s like English vs. Spanish. It’s just a language. In practice, I personally see no difference and my brain just deals with whatever unit I’m dealing with.