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Thread: Suggestions for getting into mid range in DFW?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TOTS View Post
    Honest question: I usually advise new long range guys wanting a chassis setup to spend their budget like this. Mostly on a good optic, decent chassis, non-shit barrels, then action. I think it’s a great idea to forego the custom action and use the extra money on a better optic and higher quality ammunition or class. In fact, a custom action is usually a last expense for me. Again, honestly wondering why you think a budget action in a good chassis is a dumb idea?

    And quoted the link to promote a very informative book.
    The optic, I see as a foregone conclusion. There are way fewer inquiries about using really cheap, shitty optics these days than there were 10 or 15 years ago. And to be honest, there are several well-known optics in the sub-$1k price range that I would happily use from 500-1000 yards. My next optics purchase is probably going to be a Nightforce Benchrest model, but that's beside the point The other thing is, I'm less inclined to advise spending more on optics on P-F than I would other places, as the culture already leans towards non-shit glass.

    Ammo--*shrugs*. It wasn't in the scope of the question, but yes, I would acquire loading equipment before I spent on a very pricey rifle. There are really good factory options for good target ammo, especially in 6.5CM. To my way of thinking, the economy of both quality factory ammo and high-quality reloading components is the biggest reason to choose that cartridge or the Grendel.

    So! Budget action in a pricey chassis! Not "good", because there are plenty of really good budget options, but pricey. Putting a lot of money into a chassis means wedding yourself to the inlet. If you want to get out of it later, you're going to lose a bunch of money selling the thing (although it's better than a traditionally-bedded stock), especially if it's built for some rifle that the caviar rifle set doesn't like. To an extent, you can avoid this by going from a Remington 700 action to a clone custom, but now you're limited to 700 clones, and not every chassis' 700 inlet supports clone actions without modification. And to be frank, I don't think that most shooters really need all the features a chassis offers. If you can attach a good bipod and a cheek riser, you've got 90% of what an adjustable chassis will do for the average guy. I love mine, but I also know I'm not using half the capability.

    A custom action, on the other hand, does a ton of stuff. It'll be smoother to operate than a factory action. You'll have a nice, easily-removable, ultra-reliable extractor, and either a choice of bolt knobs or a threaded handle. They're available with milled rails for optics, and you can count on everything being squared-up, centered, and perfectly threaded. You can install a good barrel and know that whatever happens, it's not the action's fault. The entry-level actions really offer a good value when you consider what it would cost to bring a factory action to that level. The Defiance Tenacity is a steal.

    I would dip my toes with a basic 700 or Model 10 with a heavy threaded barrel, and a Vortex Diamondback Tactical scope. If I decided I had to have a chassis, the MDT LSS Gen 2 or LSS-XL are both quite reasonable. If I thought about spending any more than that on a chassis (MDT ACC or ESS, Masterpiece Arms, etc) I would really make a longer-term plan about what I wanted.

  2. #12
    Crews - Any idea on the trainers name? Was it Sean at VaporTrail?

    I’m thinking a bolt gun is the way to go right now. I’m thinking in the $1K-$2K range for rifle and optics.

    I will not be reloading and am seriously thinking of kidnapping SeriousStudent and trying his fancy pants 22lr. If they are as fancy as his revolvers, then they are fancy!

  3. #13
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Woe is me. I am a harmless old man and easily damaged.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post
    Crews - Any idea on the trainers name? Was it Sean at VaporTrail?
    It’s Jason Garvey at:
    /http://www.precisionriflehunters.com

    I have admittedly never taken any training from him myself. However, I have been watching the positive feedback roll in on Texas Hunting Forum for many years. And his contributions to the forum indicate he is both knowledgeable and experienced in the art of long range rifle.

    The class is $400 for a one day private lesson that’s tailored to your needs. For all the money and tome I’ve spent trying to figure it out myself I wish I had made that investment from the start.


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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post

    I’m thinking a bolt gun is the way to go right now. I’m thinking in the $1K-$2K range for rifle and optics.

    I will not be reloading
    The last thing I’d waste my beginner budget on is an expensive rifle when a so many modern cheap rifles are so accurate. A Tikka is very hard to beat (and this is coming from a guy who shoots an AI.). It’s also a great foundation for you to expand on in the future if needed. You do need a chassis that has ample adjustability because setup will make or break you, read KRG Bravo.

    Leave room in the budget for an Atlas CAL, a crap Harris bipod is more counterproductive than you think.

    Spend as much on the glass as you can. Doesn’t seem intuitive but the rifle can wait, the glass can’t.

    And don’t feel bad about skipping the reloading. Factory Hornady ELD-M ammo is nothing short of amazing for the $.


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  6. #16
    Thanks Crews. I Was thinking a Tikka CTR or Bergara HMR in 6.5 or 243. Perhaps a cheapish 223/243 on the way there given that 223/5.56 ammo is fucking scarce.

    You have any optics in mind? I was thinking the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post
    I’m thinking a bolt gun is the way to go right now. I’m thinking in the $1K-$2K range for rifle and optics.
    While you could technically do a DIY with a custom action at the high end of that price point, I would not. There was an outfit running nice deals on 6.5CM Tikka TAC A1s with optics for ~$1700 a few months ago, but I think that time has passed.

    I think you have a couple options. A Tikka T3X Lite will run you ~$650, and KRG Bravo will bring that to a grand. If you can hold out until Thanksgiving, I'd shop the MDT Black Friday factory seconds sale. There are also a number of Savage Model 10 SKUs (BA Stealth, Stealth Evolution, Desert Tactical, etc) that are really quite competitive with that. Personally, I would suggest that the Tikka can always be rebarreled, but you'll never get rid of the Savage's heavy bolt lift.

    Do you need a chassis? If your budget was less, it'd be the first thing I looked to cut. I learned to shoot without one, but I also spent lots of time setting up my rifles and my scopes tend to have generous eyeboxes. And I'm not doing a ton of prone stuff. Do note, however, that I don't own a rifle that's not in a chassis, and any rifle I did buy would find its way into either a chassis or an F-class-type stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crews
    Leave room in the budget for an Atlas CAL, a crap Harris bipod is more counterproductive than you think.
    I've done okay with my Harris, but I would agree that it's a bunch of effort. My regular range makes no provision for prone shooting, the benches have nothing to load against, and they're not even shaped in such a way that I could pin a benchtop mat with a bipod stop on it. Out of necessity, I switched over to a Sinclair F-Class 'pod with ski feet for most of my shooting. I learned to shoot the Harris with no hop and and just the surface to load against, but it's not something I would wish on anyone.

    And don’t feel bad about skipping the reloading. Factory Hornady ELD-M ammo is nothing short of amazing for the $.
    It's disgustingly good. I've been very pleased with their ELD-M bullets for reloading. I've only gotten one in God-knows-how-many boxes that was blemmed (the jacket didn't meet the tip). I sort by weight, and probably only six or seven per box are outside of +/-.1 gr. Doesn't make a ton of difference, does make me happy.

    I don't think you're wrong for sticking to factory.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Dealey Plaza, Republic of Texas
    I "work" at Lone Star Armory in Ft Worth, TX. We build high end ARs (10s, 15s, and PCC) and bolt guns. But we can do other stuff too. We have our own range called Lone Star Training Center, though we work with the guys at Triple C and ETTS more often right now. Anyways, if you'd like to come into the shop, take a look around, see the manufacturing side of things, we'd love to have you out. Contact me through the board and let me see what I can set up for you, or anyone in the DFW area.
    Last edited by Brian T; 07-08-2020 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Oukaapie View Post
    You have any optics in mind? I was thinking the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25.
    At the risk of sounding like an uppity asshole, here goes:

    Buying a cheaper vortex is like buying a warranty with a crappy scope to accessorize it. Will it work? Kinda, until it breaks. How much is your time worth?

    Also, I personally wouldn’t be paying the size penalty of a 14”+ Hubble telescope on top of my rifle when I know for a fact 25x is absolutely unnecessary (and even a hindrance.) And the high mag IQ just wont be there.

    I’d at least plan for $1k-ish, which gets you up to a Bushy DMR II, Burris XTR II, Nightforce SHV space. That category starts to feel like you didn’t waste your money the first time on a junky scope.


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  10. #20
    You can get a Viper PST Gen 2 5-25 for $100 more. Or a 6-24 for the same money. Quite happy with my sample of one--the turrets track well, eyebox is quite generous, glass is very clear. If I was going to complain about it, the knobs could be a little more clicky, and the zero stop is tricky to set up.

    Nightforce SHV is going to be another $300 over the PST to get a showroom demo 4-14 FFP. Getting a new one is more like $1300. I wouldn't bother with a SFP. Is it nicer than the Viper? Well, yeah, but not 1.5 times as nice. That said, I'm flipping around the idea of picking up a Nightforce Benchrest, either for my 6.5 or for a dedicated F-Open gun.

    I punch a lot of paper, so I get a lot of use out of 25x. If all I cared about was hitting somewhere on a piece of steel, I would get a lower-powered scope from a more expensive marque. I don't find it overly-ungainly, but my rifle already weighs nearly 20 pounds, and I don't have to carry it all day. If I don't need the full 25x, I just crank it back down and get a little better eyebox. I find the Vortex EBR reticle perfectly usable at lower magnifications.

    I think that if you're unsure as to which is a better buy for you, you should get with a coach that will let you at least take a look at his setups. What works for me up here might not work so hot in Texas. You might hate shit I don't mind. Spending as much as you're planning and having to sell it and buy something else is going to result in a hit that's a lot bigger than what a coach is going to charge you.

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