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Thread: If you want to talk about repeaters, don't come in here

  1. #231
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    That should be fun!

    Sears Roebuck and Bannermans cut down scads of rifles to carbine size in the late 1800s-early 1900s to sell as cheap hunting guns when the trapdoors were being phased out and sold as surplus (both 50-70s and 45-70s). There were a few indicators, none of which matter in a strictly shooter or hunting gun context, but if it has a sling mount in the front of the trigger guard, it was probably originally a rifle or a parts gun, filled in cleaning rod channel in the fore end in front of the band, its a cut down rifle stock, if the rear sight is marked with an R instead of a C, rifle part.

    Original trapdoors have remained surprisingly affordable, particularly if modified guns dont bother you. Some are a bit more cobbled up than I would want to mess with, but a gun being absolutely original in every aspect doesnt matter to me in the least so far as its got mainly original type parts (not neccesarily starting life on the same gun, just same basic type), and enough left on the barrel to make it into something I like. Theres been some fine sporters made from trapdoors, one I liked was an English style sporter. A cut down rifle to carbine basic specs doesnt hurt my feelings in the least.

    I believe most trapdoors bores run large. Check on the castboolit forum and see what those guys are doing for bullets and loads. I dont recall if @Outpost75 has messed with trapdoors much but i suspect so, he may have some info to share.
    ďFar better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.Ē
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  2. #232
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    The cleaning rod channel wasn't filled in when the stock was shortened so I suspect it's not a Bannerman or Sears. Would be neat if Sears had done it though. My Grandmother worked for them for 20-something years as a catalogue phone order taker and everything in their house was Kenmore, Lady Kenmore or Craftsman.

    Can't see any markings on the rear sight yet and the sling mount is in front of the trigger guard. I don't think it shows up in the pictures, but someone dovetailed a "new" front sight on the barrel which again points to a cut down rifle.

    After looking the stock over, it's ugly and beat up but I can't find any cracks or breaks. If it cleans up well enough, I'll fill the cleaning rod channel with a contrasting wood sort of like a Winchester 1885.

    The potentially large bore is my biggest concern. My other 2 .45-70s are modern Italian repros and should have SAAMI spec bores. If there's enough meat, maybe I'll have John Taylor reline it to SAAMI spec. I don't want to keep a separate size bullet or roundball for a single carbine. Of course if I buy another project I could have 2 oversized bores and I wouldn't be stocking for just a single oddball...
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

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  3. #233
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Since Project Trapdoor is nowhere near collectible, Iíd like to hear some thoughts on soda blasting the heaviest areas of rust before taking it apart fully and starting the deep cleaning.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  4. #234
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    I don't have any experience with soda blasting, but in the interest of keeping your question at the top, I've recently had opportunity to use a laser cleaning process which I think will eventually find a lot of use on firearms when the price comes down some....the one I used sold for $15k and the one my company is considering is more like $43k. I made a mount for ours because using it handheld produced a sort of striation effect on the metal we were cleaning. We initially tested it on a bench vise I'd pulled out of the scrap yard and it stripped decades of rust, grease, and who-knows-what-all off of it without damaging the metal underneath at all. Really cool device which needs a fume extraction hood and laser goggles for safety, but in firearm stripping use would also allow all of the gun's markings to be perfectly preserved when rebluing was needed. Small objects actually soak up a lot of heat, too, so gloves can be necessary even if total time under the laser is like 6 seconds.

    Anyway, it was something cool I used recently and thought others might appreciate it also.

  5. #235
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Since Project Trapdoor is nowhere near collectible, Iíd like to hear some thoughts on soda blasting the heaviest areas of rust before taking it apart fully and starting the deep cleaning.

    Im not familiar with soda blasting or how it leaves the metal finish. Id opt for the least intrusive first though, Hoppes No 9 solvent or oil, soak, lightly clean with 4-O steel wool or bronze wool, repeat as much as required to see what the final finish will be without anything intrusive being done.

    Ive seen many guns re-done with whatever the new hotness in metal finishing is, it seemed like a fabulous idea at the time, but makes for difficult issues later for someone that may want to keep it closer to original-ish, or needed for parts, whatever. Im not strictly a box stock originalist with regards to most non-unique gun stuff or old motorcycles, but still like to try to keep modifications to a degree that the primary parts arent permanently altered.

    Linebaugh blued my old 1911, it had some pitting that was mostly eliminated with well done hand polishing by somebody prior to my custodial care of it, he did the final finish with a fine wire wheel (actually he pointed to it and told me to do it) that gave it a nice mellow overall finish but not a real high polish that didnt emphasize the pits and certainly far nicer than the (to me) hideous bead blasted finish so many seem to like. Something of that sort may work on your Springfield. Cleaning the metal well will tell the tale whats possible. Soda blasting may be an answer, Im just not familiar with it and if its going to permanently alter the metal surface.

    One friend years ago used a foaming bore cleaner to help a really badly fouled and grungy looking military rifle, it came out very nice after many applications. Electronic bore cleaners are probably a good option also. However, id just adjust to the idea that the bore is most likely going to be around .460 or a bit larger groove diameter. Very soft bullets and black powder can mitigate some of that as well as hollow base bullets.

    Edit: Hey look....https://www.blackpowdercartridge.com...0also%20common.


    If you dont already have a copy I suggest acquiring one of this https://www.amazon.com/Forty-Years-4.../dp/0935632840

    Ive read it a couple times in the past but dont own one. I should remedy that. You are probably aware of this, but most modern load info isnt relevant to trapdoors or most original black powder era rifles. There are likely more books specific to trapdoor loading which may be even more useful than this particular book, though I recall he discussed it.
    Last edited by Malamute; 02-12-2024 at 11:10 AM.
    ďFar better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.Ē
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #236
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Thanks! Iíve got the Matthews book but never read it and I should change that.

    My understanding is in order of aggressiveness itís sandblasting>glass bead blasting>soda blasting. I was told by someone who has used it in automotive applications it leaves the metal ďvery smoothĒ. Not exactly a measurable quantity but those were his words when I mentioned my interest in trying it for this project.

    I believe my BIL has one. If he does, Iíll borrow it to try on some scrap first.

    @Welder, a laser cleaner? Thatís wild!
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    @Welder, a laser cleaner? Thatís wild!
    Here is a link; I don't know how to embed:

    https://youtu.be/Q8q3DZB_l6M?si=szXq_JSE1MC-7k-y

    Not exactly what we got, but similar.

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Since Project Trapdoor is nowhere near collectible, Iíd like to hear some thoughts on soda blasting the heaviest areas of rust before taking it apart fully and starting the deep cleaning.
    I would probably look into doing the Mark Novak boiling/rust bluing before I blasted it, especially since it was originally rust blued. With that method youíre just converting any rust/patina back into finish. Iirc he has a video on making a boiling vessel out of a piece of gutter with propane for a heat source.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  9. #239
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    I would probably look into doing the Mark Novak boiling/rust bluing before I blasted it, especially since it was originally rust blued. With that method youíre just converting any rust/patina back into finish. Iirc he has a video on making a boiling vessel out of a piece of gutter with propane for a heat source.
    Yes, thatís absolutely my Plan A. I have a small can of Kroil and a carding wheel on the way. And I need to find that video with the gutter boiler again. I watched it sometime last year and filed it away for future reference but didnít actually bookmark it or anything.

    Thereís another one where he redid the stock of an old .22 I watched within the past couple of weeks I need to go back and bookmark as well.

    Once I have the Kroil in hand Iíll start a new thread documenting the project.

    Found the gutter boiler vid! The process starts at 35:00:

    Last edited by awp_101; 02-13-2024 at 08:11 AM.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  10. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    I picked up a project yesterday. Jackson Armory had aÖcosmetically challenged 1873

    ...

    My plan is to take it apart and clean it up as shown in the Mark Novak video in post 217. If the bore cleans up Iíll slug it and see if itís shootable.
    Collectors has a few of these that are tempting.

    Do people still shoot the old blackpowder trapdoors? I just flatly assumed they were probably not safe, even with just BP loads, and were a collector-only affair.

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