Rioting ROE

[MickAK]

What’s the consensus on bear spray ( counter assault ) for possible crowd control as a first line deterrent ? I’m thinking along the lines of a group of rioters who strayed onto my property and are coming close to the house entrance. Is it a viable alternative to the St Louis incident ? Instead of drawing down on a group of trespassers/looters/rioters with my long gun, using the bear spray ( 10.6 oz can, 40 ft reach, 6-10 second burst) as a Precursor to going to deadly force if needed. I would have preferred to have two cans of Sabre red mk9 , but those are unavailable to purchase for civilians, hence the 4 cans of bear spray.

I want to reiterate that this would be a last resort situation, I’m not looking to go out and confront a group of peaceful protesters just walking by. I would much prefer to stay out of there way, until I have no choice but to defend my home/family.

I think that's a bad idea for a couple of reasons.

The people involved in these things that are most prone to instigating violence are already prepared for less-lethal deterrents. They have respirators and goggles.

A common weapon at these incidents is a 'smasher', a long pole, often disguised as a flag or sign, with a length of chain with a padlock attached on the end. I think you'd have a really difficult time successfully attacking people with pepper spray without risking one of those upside your head.

If you fog out an area with bear spray you're likely going to catch some yourself. This isn't a huge problem if you're deterring a problem bear, you have other concerns, but it could be a problem if you're going to transition to lethal force on a crowd. I did some minor testing of this back when my plan was bear spray then gun, and it's doable but far from ideal and wouldn't work when identifying multiple targets quickly.

[ffchewy17]

How does the mace magnum 9 stack up against the Sabre red home defense?

I understand the likelihood of getting some blow back of the agent. Thanks for the info on “flag” flail weapon, first I’ve heard of it.

So any further ideas for crowd deterrent as far as less lethal for initial contact?

Thanks for the info

[MickAK]

How does the mace magnum 9 stack up against the Sabre red home defense?

I understand the likelihood of getting some blow back of the agent. Thanks for the info on “flag” flail weapon, first I’ve heard of it.

So any further ideas for crowd deterrent as far as less lethal for initial contact?

Thanks for the info

Honestly, I'd stand on the lawn and spray people with a hose while laughing. I'm not surrendering my lawn jockeys to the horde. People don't like getting wet.

Starting a fight is starting a fight. I'm not hiding in my house until it's on fire or the windows are getting broken in, but until it's time to shoot people I think hitting them with less lethal deterrents is more likely to make you a target than keep people away. The vast majority of these people are decent, misguided folks that have been lied to and had a narrative spun for them that they want to believe to get the dopamine rush of 'fighting for a cause'. If they get rowdy and break down a gate and you're standing there hitting them with pepper spray, that feeds into that narrative. If you're giggling while spraying them with a garden hose they'll probably laugh too, and if an instigator gets rowdy about it the crowd will probably side with you.

We need a tactical garden hose thread.

[Totem Polar]

Our "line" is an attempted arson of our home, an attempt to force entry of our home, or an attempt at a violent assault. My wife is pregnant, so a physical assault could have serious consequences for her/the baby's health, and I don't want my ass kicked (or killed) by a mob. If arson, home invasion, or an assault on us is not imminent, I'm staying out of it. I'm not interested in getting doxxed and having my life ruined unless it is absolutely necessary.

This is one of the better posts in the thread.

As my buddy Matt Graham used to say, people will have to come up to my level, I’m not stepping down to theirs. Meaning, my “line” is the same as yours. I’m not interested in engaging a mob unless it’s clear that it’s *really* time to engage.

[RoyGBiv]

This is one of the better posts in the thread.

As my buddy Matt Graham used to say, people will have to come up to my level, I’m not stepping down to theirs. Meaning, my “line” is the same as yours. I’m not interested in engaging a mob unless it’s clear that it’s *really* time to engage.

I think it's important to consider circumstances and not have a fixed plan. Like a lot of LE here say, sometimes a smaller amount of force early in the confrontation can avoid more force later. While I agree with the avoidance goal, if a mob is already engaged in mischief, it's important to consider what mischief has already occurred and whether it's escalating. Etc.