Truck Sawzall?

[willie]

Well, I guess I'm just screwed. I'm so slow that my buddies invite me on giant python and bear hunts so if we have to run, the animal gets me. I have considered having protest and bullshit signs made up and kept in my vehicle as a ruse. I can jump out(?)and start protesting. I'm serious. I hope I don't shout shit like free love and nickel beer. That might give me away.

[BehindBlueI's]

When these systems first came out some were and probably still are low tension systems 3000 pounds or less and are much safer to work around. I believe Florida was the first to go over 5000lbs and North Carolina has some that go to 10k. I cant speak of other states. I do know enough that I don't want to cut any unknown system and I sure the hell don't want anyone to think that they can because of a youtube video that is almost 10 years old..

The ones in the video go up to 9k lbs.

I understand this may not be a risk free option, but I want it to be AN option for when staying in place may lead to serious injury or death. I'm willing to risk lesser injury to avoid that, and I don't really care what the financial costs are in that sort of situation. It'll be cheaper then being jailed for shooting someone who needed shot and in today's climate the assumption "a good shoot" won't get me fired, socially ostracized, and jailed is fantasy land shit. So, yes, I'm willing to risk damaging cables and maybe getting hurt while doing it. I want to minimize that risk.

So, duct tape and sand bags probably sufficient? Or what's changed in the 10 years since that I should be aware of?

I think Imma gonna listen to the firefighter who is trained in this shit vs the dude who found an internet article and watched a YouTube video and is now arguing with the firefighter.

ETA: plus cutting or removing a turnbuckle should incur a smaller bill if you get charged for destroying property.

In fairness, the article and video were also by/for firefighters. Even if the dude in the last one looked it was take your son to school day and they let the kid do it....

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, I guess I'm just screwed. I'm so slow that my buddies invite me on giant python and bear hunts so if we have to run, the animal gets me. I have considered having protest and bullshit signs made up and kept in my vehicle as a ruse. I can jump out(?)and start protesting. I'm serious. I hope I don't shout shit like free love and nickel beer. That might give me away.

That's why you need a way to get out and stay motorized.

[UNK]

Here is a 2016 video detailing dealing with cables system. The recurring theme in everything I have read or watched is dont cut the cables because #1) that section is no longer protected. #2) the cost to replace cables as they cant be spliced.

[Crazy Dane]

The ones in the video go up to 9k lbs.

I understand this may not be a risk free option, but I want it to be AN option for when staying in place may lead to serious injury or death. I'm willing to risk lesser injury to avoid that, and I don't really care what the financial costs are in that sort of situation. It'll be cheaper then being jailed for shooting someone who needed shot and in today's climate the assumption "a good shoot" won't get me fired, socially ostracized, and jailed is fantasy land shit. So, yes, I'm willing to risk damaging cables and maybe getting hurt while doing it. I want to minimize that risk.

I get the sentiment. I would bust a hole in the Biltmore House if it meant my safety.

So, duct tape and sand bags probably sufficient? Maybe. Or what's changed in the 10 years since that I should be aware of? see below



In fairness, the article and video were also by/for firefighters. Even if the dude in the last one looked it was take your son to school day and they let the kid do it.... In fairness we don't always get things right and do smart things.

I guess part of what I am having a hard time envisioning is what scenario that would put me on a grid locked highway with enough time to cut those cables in the first place?


I remember when this came out and was mostly responsible for getting our department trained. I went to Holmatro's https://www.holmatro.com/en rescue academy for their train the trainer. I have since quit teaching and have not kept up with all the latest fashion trends. My latest training on these systems was back in October and the guys that have been back to these schools and conferences to keep up have said "do not cut unless all other options have been exhausted". I work approximately 14 miles of interstate with half of that having the tension cable system and no one has ever had to cut cable.

You will need a rotary saw or hydraulic cutters to cut cable, we tried a sawsall in the school that I went to, see comment about not doing smart things. We broke 2 saws and countless blades, I think I even bled some.. A sawsall would work on a turn buckle*. Do not ever cut any thing that is not parallel to the ground. Weight the cables, use several wraps of tape and stand at arms length when cutting.

* If you are at a turn buckle or anchor point, they aren't as far apart as you would think, a large adjustable or large pipe wrench and a tire iron is all you need to back the tension off to make it safer to cut or if time allows take it all the way down. I have loosened cables on a call and it was probably as fast as cutting and it was defiantly safer.

[Crazy Dane]

Here is a 2016 video detailing dealing with cables system. The recurring theme in everything I have read or watched is dont cut the cables because #1) that section is no longer protected. #2) the cost to replace cables as they cant be spliced.

Thanks, I have never seen this video, I guess because it is from Minnesota. We have a similar vid put out by NCdot. There are differences in operating procedures for sure. I can only go by how I've been trained.

[UNK]

I guess part of what I am having a hard time envisioning is what scenario that would put me on a grid locked highway with enough time to cut those cables in the first place?


I remember when this came out and was mostly responsible for getting our department trained. I went to Holmatro's https://www.holmatro.com/en rescue academy for their train the trainer. I have since quit teaching and have not kept up with all the latest fashion trends. My latest training on these systems was back in October and the guys that have been back to these schools and conferences to keep up have said "do not cut unless all other options have been exhausted". I work approximately 14 miles of interstate with half of that having the tension cable system and no one has ever had to cut cable.

You will need a rotary saw or hydraulic cutters to cut cable, we tried a sawsall in the school that I went to, see comment about not doing smart things. We broke 2 saws and countless blades, I think I even bled some.. A sawsall would work on a turn buckle*. Do not ever cut any thing that is not parallel to the ground. Weight the cables, use several wraps of tape and stand at arms length when cutting.

* If you are at a turn buckle or anchor point, they aren't as far apart as you would think, a large adjustable or large pipe wrench and a tire iron is all you need to back the tension off to make it safer to cut or if time allows take it all the way down. I have loosened cables on a call and it was probably as fast as cutting and it was defiantly safer.

I think you may have not seen the part of the OP that discusses trapped on a roadway during a riot/taking over a roadway in a situation where you cant escape and are at the mercy of the mob.

Wouldnt not cutting a cable unless its parallel to the roadway be more likely during a rescue of an entangled vehicle?

Good info about a sawzall not cutting through the cable. Do you think a battery powered grinder would be able to cut a tensioned cable? Do you have access to test this theory?

ETA Also if there is a way for you or have someone test the theory could you also test the duct tape theory? Im wondering if that by itself is enough or if some additional help maybe some zip ties? and duct tape could control fraying.
I did see in the last video a puff of some materials which could be indicative of the explosion shrapnel effect you mentioned earlier.

[MickAK]

The ones in the video go up to 9k lbs.

I understand this may not be a risk free option, but I want it to be AN option for when staying in place may lead to serious injury or death. I'm willing to risk lesser injury to avoid that, and I don't really care what the financial costs are in that sort of situation. It'll be cheaper then being jailed for shooting someone who needed shot and in today's climate the assumption "a good shoot" won't get me fired, socially ostracized, and jailed is fantasy land shit. So, yes, I'm willing to risk damaging cables and maybe getting hurt while doing it. I want to minimize that risk.

So, duct tape and sand bags probably sufficient? Or what's changed in the 10 years since that I should be aware of?



In fairness, the article and video were also by/for firefighters. Even if the dude in the last one looked it was take your son to school day and they let the kid do it....

My concern wouldn't really be injuring myself but injuring/killing someone coming up to see what I was doing/see if they could get out that way too. That wouldn't be any cheaper/more legally advisable that shooting someone that needed shot. 'Stay away from that!' is a really difficult command to enforce for some reason. I think the suggestion to loosen the turnbuckle at least one turn before cutting would be advisable.

[MGW]

I think a battery powered circular saw with a metal cutting blade would make a really good GP extraction tool.

[OlongJohnson]

The tradeoff is that you're dealing with a fiber-reinforced resin wheel spinning at 8000+RPM. It's delicate and if you're hamfisted with it and start torqueing it in the cut, it'll explode on you. Yeah there are guards on the grinders, but if this is for emergency use, chances are you're taking the guard off because it limits your approach angles and your operating area. So when the wheel explodes, some of it is going into *you.* You can do a search for what these injuries look like on people who weren't wearing PPE. The other thing about cutoffs is that you're throwing sparks. Not as hot as welding, torch, or Slice-type sparks, but they'll still start a fire, get into your and other people's eyes, etc. You really need eye pro and welding gloves for cutoff wheel use at minimum, and that eye pro is ideally a full face shield. Last thing is that the wheels do wear out relatively quickly if you lean on them. The ones I use, Metabo Original Slicers, cost a little under $1 each. They hold together well but don't like being forced in the cut or they turn to dust pretty quickly. 30 seconds will have an expensive padlock laying on the ground in 2 pieces.

I know a guy who got an exploded grinding wheel in his face. That was a bad day. Especially for dealing with twisted wreckage that may have residual strain on it, the spinning wheel makes me nervous. The tendency to grab and kick back if it gets even a little sideways has always bugged me.

Sawzalls.

There are new and nifty blades out there that last a long time. I don't know anything about them. Mine always get destroyed anyway. Sometimes from stuff like in the above paragraph. I've tried cutting cable with sawzalls before, and it's maddening. The teeth grab the cable and rapidly run it back and forth with the blade rather than cutting it. You have to get it against something or get a different angle to cut it. Same thing with really thin steel. You choose the tooth count based on what you think you'll get into. If steel, the rule is that you generally try to keep 3 teeth in the cut. So your tpi (teeth per inch) might need to be a high number if you're planning to cut thin steel. A couple different blades would be smart to have.

A couple big advantages of a sawzall are that you can run it in shorts and flip-flops, that it doesn't throw sparks, that it's impossible to explode the blade and put pieces into you and bystanders, and that it's not going to throw stuff into your eyes unless you're cutting overhead. Still wear PPE obviously, but it's a tool for the masses and probably for the purposes of this thread the more useful tool of the two.

If the sheet metal is thin enough, like what they make cars out of, the standard 18 TPI or so blade will zip through it no problem. It's almost more of a multi-punch nibbler, with each tooth ripping a good little chunk out. Even if stuff moved and grabbed the blade, leave it in the cut, grab a new one out of the bag and try again. Sawzall blades bend, not break. Extremely tough.

I've used one for thicker stuff, 1/4 inch or so mild plate, and it got the job done when that was the best tool I had. Some kind of lubricant actually does help a lot. You can use paraffin (an old candle works, or they sell special lubricating wax sticks for band saws); it just melts onto the hot blade and turns to liquid, but doesn't run all over and make a mess when things cool.

Between the two, I'd much rather cut someone out of a vehicle with the saw. But I'd rather have the cutoff wheel if I had to separate a cable, padlock or chain.

If you're starting to think I sound like someone who's owned a Sawzall for 20 years and never had a grinder bigger than 4 inches, you're probably onto something.

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Another thing: I learned about White Ox gloves when working construction in the Pacific Northwet.

https://www.amazon.com/White-Elastic...dp/B004MLSHSA/

You can buy them one pair at a time if you look around.

They provide the same level of protection against abrasion, laceration and puncture as similar leather work gloves, but don't get slimy when they are wet, and they don't get hard and stiff when they dry after being wet. They are more breathable, they are washable and possibly less likely to provide a happy grow media for bacteria. They seem to be a little more cushioned against vibrating equipment. I strongly prefer them to heavy leather.