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Thread: Useful Target Data or Nah?

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Had a chance to think over this: This might be able to show you how good your grip is. I'd imagine a shitty grip would fall apart and you'd be all over the target & backer, or take longer between shots.

    So all this is is me having fun on the range and wasting ammo, and trying to justify it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rd62 View Post
    I guess that depends on the end game you are trying to accomplish.
    I just want to be a excellent shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by ViniVidivici View Post
    Did this exercise include a draw? Concealment or retention holster?
    No, @GyroF-16 is correct, no draw. From compressed high ready

    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    Is this a "see how fast you can empty the gun into the target" exercise?

    Id suggest more shoot some, assess, proceed as needed or indicated by circumstances.
    Yup exactly what it is

    Quote Originally Posted by GyroF-16 View Post
    My opinion:

    If you can shoot quarter-second splits into an 8” circle at 10 yds, you seem to be capable of shooting reasonably accurately, fairly quickly.
    If you’re preparing for USPSA or IDPA, that level of accuracy will probably be fine.
    If, on the other hand, you’re wanting to increase your skill as a defensive shooter, I’d recommend moving to things like “the Test” (10 yds, 10 rds, 10 sec) on a B-8, looking for a score of 90 or better, with all the hits in the black. It’s a way to emphasize more precise accuracy over raw speed.
    Could then move to the “Half Test” (5 yds, 10 rds, 5 sec), with the same accuracy standards.

    Again, it all depends on what your goals are.
    Nice, thank you! Goal first and foremost is to be able to protect myself. After that it's just about being a good shooter and enjoying the path to get there. What is a "blindingly fast split"?
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    Had a chance to think over this: This might be able to show you how good your grip is. I'd imagine a shitty grip would fall apart and you'd be all over the target & backer, or take longer between shots.

    So all this is is me having fun on the range and wasting ammo, and trying to justify it.



    I just want to be a excellent shooter



    No, @GyroF-16 is correct, no draw. From compressed high ready



    Yup exactly what it is



    Nice, thank you! Goal first and foremost is to be able to protect myself. After that it's just about being a good shooter and enjoying the path to get there. What is a "blindingly fast split"?

    Cool!
    People around here that I respect usually reference a target the size of a grapefruit (and the black rings of a B-8) as the acceptable size of the desired target when shooting to defend yourself.

    In my experience, splits in the area of 0.10” are pretty blindingly fast. But while it is possible to be somewhat accurate at that speed (and therefore useful in games), it’s WAY faster than the mental ability to assess the results of the shots, and much too fast to be able to STOP shooting as soon as you get the desired results. At that speed, it’s way to easy to outrun your headlights and fire shots that you’d no longer be able to justify.

    As an example, I’ve learned that my reaction time (beep to bang with a prepped trigger) is about 0.19”. While it is possible for me to shoot multiples with split times faster than that, I lose 2 things:
    - accuracy, as I’m not able to consistently track the sights and press the trigger much faster. The result is degraded accuracy, as I am relying, at least in part, on muscle tension to return the sights to “about” the right place before the next shot breaks.
    - the ability to stop mid-string. At maximum rate of fire, I’m just pulling the trigger as fast as I can while not short-stroking it. If I got a visual input to stop shooting, there would be 1 or more shots after that before my brain could process it and cease shooting. This is not what I want in a defensive encounter.

    Make sense?
    Last edited by GyroF-16; 06-23-2020 at 12:17 PM.

  3. #13
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    If you're looking for a drill that evaluates your grip, I'd do the Garcia Dots drill. If you can clean it, I take my hat off to you and your grip is probably just fine.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    If you're looking for a drill that evaluates your grip, I'd do the Garcia Dots drill. If you can clean it, I take my hat off to you and your grip is probably just fine.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    Whooo that looks hard!

    http://pistol-training.com/drills/fr...cias-dot-drill

    I'll try it out next time I go shoot
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    Whooo that looks hard!

    http://pistol-training.com/drills/fr...cias-dot-drill

    I'll try it out next time I go shoot
    It has been referred to as, and I quote, a "soul crushing junk punch" lol.

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  6. #16
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    OP, this was not a waste of time.

    Looking at your target and assuming you are aiming at the dead center, you can assume a few things about your shooting. First of all, it’s not that bad! Looking at your impacts I would guess that your grip is mostly okay. Which means you are holding the gun firmly and the sights are returning mostly okay. The four low shots, and the one to the left, indicate (assuming you are right handed) that you are tensing your firing hand and pressing into the gun, trying to control recoil. This is very common, and can be worked on. Hand tension is the real accuracy killer, and is a more common problem than jerking the trigger or not gripping the gun well enough.

    To tighten up your group, I would focus on shooting doubles instead of mag dumps. Bring the gun up, shoot a controlled pair, let the gun settle, and then shoot another controlled pair. You need to be watching your sights. At 10 yards a good split time would be around .20-.25 and you should try to get them all into a fist sized group.

    Doubles will bring out your hand tension issues and give you the feedback on what you need to improve. If you see impacts going low and left you will know on those shots you are tensing your firing hand and pushing into the gun (basically sympathetic reflex when pressing the trigger). You will learn what that feels like and hopefully how to mitigate it.

    Good luck.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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  7. #17
    Site Supporter Jay585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbersaurus View Post
    OP, this was not a waste of time.

    Looking at your target and assuming you are aiming at the dead center, you can assume a few things about your shooting. First of all, it’s not that bad! Looking at your impacts I would guess that your grip is mostly okay. Which means you are holding the gun firmly and the sights are returning mostly okay. The four low shots, and the one to the left, indicate (assuming you are right handed) that you are tensing your firing hand and pressing into the gun, trying to control recoil. This is very common, and can be worked on. Hand tension is the real accuracy killer, and is a more common problem than jerking the trigger or not gripping the gun well enough.

    To tighten up your group, I would focus on shooting doubles instead of mag dumps. Bring the gun up, shoot a controlled pair, let the gun settle, and then shoot another controlled pair. You need to be watching your sights. At 10 yards a good split time would be around .20-.25 and you should try to get them all into a fist sized group.

    Doubles will bring out your hand tension issues and give you the feedback on what you need to improve. If you see impacts going low and left you will know on those shots you are tensing your firing hand and pushing into the gun (basically sympathetic reflex when pressing the trigger). You will learn what that feels like and hopefully how to mitigate it.

    Good luck.

    Nice! Good info. Another drill I'll be trying out.

    I'm left handed and shooting with an RMR. I think, IIRC, you don't watch the red dot (though I do that sometimes) but instead look at the target and see the red dot on it.

    What do the low left shots mean as a lefty?

    What defines "controlled pair"? I'm assuming that means just having your sights on the target before letting loose a second round as opposed to pulling the trigger twice quickly without taking sights/dot into play.
    "Well you know, it's a toolbox. You put the tools in for the job." Sam

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay585 View Post
    Nice! Good info. Another drill I'll be trying out.

    I'm left handed and shooting with an RMR. I think, IIRC, you don't watch the red dot (though I do that sometimes) but instead look at the target and see the red dot on it.

    What do the low left shots mean as a lefty?

    What defines "controlled pair"? I'm assuming that means just having your sights on the target before letting loose a second round as opposed to pulling the trigger twice quickly without taking sights/dot into play.
    I’m not a red dot shooter with pistols, but yes, I hear you need to look at the target.

    As a lefty I still think you may be over-tensing your firing hand. You still have a few low shots that are generally centered.

    Yes, you get the general concept of a controlled pair.

    Good luck!
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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