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Thread: Training priorities for new shooter.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    "Perfect doubles" where both rounds pass through the same hole, perfectly centered, are pretty rare. In my experience, in cases where 2 rounds go through the same hole, even a tiny misalignment will result in an oblong hole that is easy to spot as 2 hits rather than 1.
    Looks like I just really shanked one in that set, then.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter 0ddl0t's Avatar
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    After the Ferguson riots I reached the same conclusion you recently have and choose your Glock 34's .40 caliber twin, the Glock 35. Here are some things I learned along the way that may help you:

    For me, pistol marksmanship is one of those endeavors with a U-shaped development curve. As a total virgin shooter I shot good groups right away, but the more I practiced the worse I seemed to get for quite a while until things finally started to click and I began to truly get better. My main problem was anticipation - my subconscious had learned precisely when the gun was going to go off so just before the loud bang, it would make my hand/arm jerk down in anticipation of fighting the recoil. These flinches caused the largest marksmanship errors - the type that sometimes send rounds completely off the paper.

    To fight it I should have done a lot more dry fire, but I found dry fire boring so I struggled a lot longer than I needed to. I did implement variations of the "ball and dummy" drill where you mix in some inert "snap caps" with your live ammunition when on the range. When you go to fire a snap cap, nothing happens so if you're anticipating you'll clearly see your sights dip. As an added bonus, you then get to practice clearing a malfunction which will soon have you tap rack & banging without conscious thought... For specific drills, I recommend two: loading 1 live round, 1 dummy, 1 live round, 1 dummy, etc This way you'll know for sure the gun won't go off every other round, but you'll probably still flinch a little at first. Once you've mastered this drill, I like to sometimes mix in a dummy randomly in my magazine just to surprise myself and make sure I'm not letting flinch creep back in. Unfortunately, years later this is a (smaller) problem that I still fight on occasion - especially when fatigued.

    As you start to shoot faster, you may find the ball & dummy drill less valuable because you may develop a *post* ignition push - something many shooters find useful for making fast follow-up shots. But during the initial learning stages, the ball and dummy helped give me the largest improvements.

    Aside from anticipation, my next largest issue was grip. Every time I picked up the pistol, I'd grip it slightly differently and every time I gripped it slightly differently, my group locations would move around. Sometimes it would happen between shots if my hands were sweaty. I can't give you any advice on fixing it other than be aware of the potential issue and try to develop a consistent index. Glocks in particular don't fit my hand well so I have found a little grip tape on them helps.

    Beyond grip & anticipation issues, there are plenty of other people here who can give better advice on precision marksmanship. But with how well you're shooting now I think if you keep those issues at bay, you'll have marksmanship well enough covered for 99% of defensive encounters.



    As far as mindset, I would just add a cursory study of terminal ballistics to counteract what we all "learned" from Hollywood growing up. The stickies in the ammunition section are a great place to start. Cliff notes: a bullet to the chest won't throw someone across the room and through a window. If the attacker is particularly motivated, it may not stop him at all. The only guaranteed "off switch" is a shot to the upper spinal cord or base of the brain - a (moving) target roughly the size of a peach pit on a slurpee straw. Even if you completely destroy the heart, the perpetrator will still have at least 5 seconds of blood pressure before passing out. That said, *most* perps seem to psychologically stop once they've been shot or shot at. But you shouldn't count on it.

    If you can handle watching defensive snuff films, there is a youtube channel called "Active Self Protection" which regularly uploads shooting videos in which you'll see a variety of situations & outcomes.


    Finally, I would add first aid and stop the bleed courses to your already excellent list. You're much more likely to use those skills (and hopefully the supplies you buy afterward) for everyday injuries and traffic collisions, but it may just save your life or that of a loved one if the worst does happen.
    Last edited by 0ddl0t; 08-26-2020 at 01:05 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Finally, I would add first aid and stop the bleed courses to your already excellent list. You're much more likely to use those skills (and hopefully the supplies you buy afterward) for everyday injuries and traffic collisions, but it may just save your life or that of a loved one if the worst does happen.
    Stop the bleed courses is a good way to get some preliminary skills as a stopgap measure, but I would recommend a dedicated class from a reputable trainer. There were several things mentioned in the stop the bleed course that gave me pause such as recommending buying TQs off amazon, or specific brands/types of of TQs that probably shouldn't be recommended.

    Also, if we're talking general safety skills, I'd consider taking a defensive driving class because (1) it's super fun and (2) most of us drive more frequently than we use the other skills that are often recommended to go after learning basic pistol fundamentals.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    After the Ferguson riots I reached the same conclusion you recently have and choose your Glock 34's .40 caliber twin, the Glock 35. Here are some things I learned along the way that may help you:

    For me, pistol marksmanship is one of those endeavors with a U-shaped development curve. As a total virgin shooter I shot good groups right away, but the more I practiced the worse I seemed to get for quite a while until things finally started to click and I began to truly get better. My main problem was anticipation - my subconscious had learned precisely when the gun was going to go off so just before the loud bang, it would make my hand/arm jerk down in anticipation of fighting the recoil. These flinches caused the largest marksmanship errors - the type that sometimes send rounds completely off the paper.

    To fight it I should have done a lot more dry fire, but I found dry fire boring so I struggled a lot longer than I needed to. I did implement variations of the "ball and dummy" drill where you mix in some inert "snap caps" with your live ammunition when on the range. When you go to fire a snap cap, nothing happens so if you're anticipating you'll clearly see your sights dip. As an added bonus, you then get to practice clearing a malfunction which will soon have you tap rack & banging without conscious thought... For specific drills, I recommend two: loading 1 live round, 1 dummy, 1 live round, 1 dummy, etc This way you'll know for sure the gun won't go off every other round, but you'll probably still flinch a little at first. Once you've mastered this drill, I like to sometimes mix in a dummy randomly in my magazine just to surprise myself and make sure I'm not letting flinch creep back in. Unfortunately, years later this is a (smaller) problem that I still fight on occasion - especially when fatigued.

    As you start to shoot faster, you may find the ball & dummy drill less valuable because you may develop a *post* ignition push - something many shooters find useful for making fast follow-up shots. But during the initial learning stages, the ball and dummy helped give me the largest improvements.

    Aside from anticipation, my next largest issue was grip. Every time I picked up the pistol, I'd grip it slightly differently and every time I gripped it slightly differently, my group locations would move around. Sometimes it would happen between shots if my hands were sweaty. I can't give you any advice on fixing it other than be aware of the potential issue and try to develop a consistent index. Glocks in particular don't fit my hand well so I have found a little grip tape on them helps.

    Beyond grip & anticipation issues, there are plenty of other people here who can give better advice on precision marksmanship. But with how well you're shooting now I think if you keep those issues at bay, you'll have marksmanship well enough covered for 99% of defensive encounters.



    As far as mindset, I would just add a cursory study of terminal ballistics to counteract what we all "learned" from Hollywood growing up. The stickies in the ammunition section are a great place to start. Cliff notes: a bullet to the chest won't throw someone across the room and through a window. If the attacker is particularly motivated, it may not stop him at all. The only guaranteed "off switch" is a shot to the upper spinal cord or base of the brain - a (moving) target roughly the size of a peach pit on a slurpee straw. Even if you completely destroy the heart, the perpetrator will still have at least 5 seconds of blood pressure before passing out. That said, *most* perps seem to psychologically stop once they've been shot or shot at. But you shouldn't count on it.

    If you can handle watching defensive snuff films, there is a youtube channel called "Active Self Protection" which regularly uploads shooting videos in which you'll see a variety of situations & outcomes.


    Finally, I would add first aid and stop the bleed courses to your already excellent list. You're much more likely to use those skills (and hopefully the supplies you buy afterward) for everyday injuries and traffic collisions, but it may just save your life or that of a loved one if the worst does happen.
    Lots of good stuff, thanks. I did look into stop the bleed, but they seem not to have classes going on now locally. Probably due to Covid.

  5. #45
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    Jun 2020
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    Missouri
    Got another short session in today. I didn't document anything, mostly just tried at different ranges, and different grasps, different rates of fire. I guess just getting a feel for shooting without trying to measure anything. I managed to avoid disappearing bullets (less holes than I had shots fired) and shots pushed low, so that's something.

  6. #46
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    Nov 2012
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    Erie County, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    "Perfect doubles" where both rounds pass through the same hole, perfectly centered, are pretty rare. In my experience, in cases where 2 rounds go through the same hole, even a tiny misalignment will result in an oblong hole that is easy to spot as 2 hits rather than 1.

    I usually shoot perfect doubles on the very far targets with a handgun. Or at least, that's what I tell the scorekeeper.

    A real perfect triple. IDPA match, very close target, you turn and draw - shoot two. So I do, I see one hole! Holy crap. How could I miss. There's one dead center Zero hole. So I fire again. Still one hole. SO is laughing and laughing. Rounds 2 and 3 did go through the first hole! Never again.

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