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Thread: Training priorities for new shooter.

  1. #21
    Reading: In something like this order.
    Becoming a Civilian Defender by Dr Sherman House
    Concealed Carry Skills and Drills and Serious Mistakes Gun Owners Make by "Tactical Professor" Claude Werner.
    Concealed Carry Class by @Tom Givens
    Violence of Mind by Varg Freeborn

    For personal instruction and MO CCW classes, you might check out Keith Fisher down in Hillsboro, MO. He's a Rangemaster certified instructor.

    This 10 part video series by @John Murphy




    Cheers,
    David S.
    Last edited by David S.; 06-22-2020 at 03:54 PM.
    David S.

  2. #22
    Welcome aboard from the owner! Scientists rock.

    Safety first. Know your four rules of firearms safety, have a decent safe, and have a holster. After that, training, specifically a two day beginner pistol class.

    We have trainers that advertise here. We could have more, but I prefer only vetted trainers. In no particular order...

    https://www.fpftraining.com/

    https://www.justifieddefensiveconcepts.com/

    https://www.green-ops.com/pistol-training-courses

    https://www.valorridge.com/pages/classes
    #RESIST

  3. #23
    Student
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Arizona
    I've found Mr. Mroz's list via the wayback machine. Please consider buying Street Focused Handgun Training volumes 1-3, compiled from his former blog. They're only five dollars each.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190630...cing-shooting/

    "...So, instead of doing the easy thing and buying another gun, or doing the fun thing and blasting away to shave a tenth off your splits, lets see what falls out from considering the (chronological) elements involved in surviving a violent attack:"

    1. You have to be focused enough to avoid potentially bad places, events, etc.
    2. You have to have a gun with you.
    3. You have to be aware enough of your surroundings to notice that something isn’t right.
    4. You have to assess what’s not right to determine if it’s a threat.
    5. You have to – in real time – decide if it’s a deadly force threat.
    6. You have to act on the threat. Most people freeze or don’t believe what’s actually happening. You have to employ appropriate tactics such as moving, sheltering a loved one, etc. Of course you have to be aware of your environment to make the best choice here (see 1. above).
    7. You have to give appropriate instructions to anyone with you.
    8. You have to access your weapon in time.
    9. You have to employ effective challenging techniques, if appropriate.
    10. You have to track the BG’s movements in real time – we’re talking fractions of a second here – to understand what he’s really doing at that exact fraction of a second.
    11. You have to track what’s behind the BG so you don’t potentially hit an innocent.
    12. You have to be aware of anyone else in the area with a gun who might mistake you for a BG with a gun.
    13. If you have to shoot, you have to hit the BG, preferably COM.
    14. You have to track the just-shot BG to make sure his weapon is out of reach and prevent same weapon from falling into the hands of his buddies or a bystander.
    15. You have to communicate effectively with the now-shocked/hysterical bystanders to keep them safe, let them know what just happened, and make it clear that you – the guy that just shot someone – is in fact a good guy.
    16. You have to get yourself and loved ones to safety.
    17. You have to get your gun out of sight.
    18. You have to call 911 while making it clear that you are the good guy. Included in that call, among other things, has to be a description of you so that responding cops know who you are. You want to do this yourself for what I hope are obvious reasons. Also of course, you have to know everything else to say and what to include in this critical call.
    19. You have to initiate first aid to any innocent injured.
    20. You have to make sure you’re not shot by responding police.
    21. You have to know how to interact with responding police: how to act, what to say, what not to say, etc.
    22. You have to call your lawyer. Do you know who’ll you’ll call? Bail will come later.
    23. You have to call your spouse, partner, parents, whomever, if they aren’t with you to let them know you’re OK and won’t be home for dinner. Or maybe for a few days. And to let them know that the press will soon be pounding on their door. And how to handle that, if you haven’t already discussed it.
    24. You have to call some trusted, competent third party to go and be with your spouse, partner, whomever to help them through this stressful time and to deal with the jackals in the press.
    25. You have to be able to articulate a clear self-defense case to your attorney. This assumes that you know what those elements are, and what things (witnesses, etc.) need to be tracked down pronto because they will disappear in short order.
    "I’ve probably missed a few things, but 25 is enough. Of course at this point the fun’s just beginning; you still have an investigation, court appearances, and possibly a trial to go through. As well as other things that are even less fun.

    And yet, almost all American training focuses only only on element 13. That is, one out of 25+ things you need to be competent at to truly survive a violent encounter. This out-of-whackedness has only gotten worse over the last 20 years. One of the pioneers of civilian deadly-force encounter training, Massad Ayoob, did (and still does) teach almost all of these elements in his flagship course. But almost no one else does, certainly not the plethora of young “trainers” these days with no real-world experience at all. They can shoot (in some cases), but they aren’t teaching you how to survive: they don’t know how to; they don’t even realize that they aren’t."

  4. #24
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Missouri
    Once again, thank you for all the suggestions. I'll have a lot to occupy me for a while.

    @Trooper224 no offense taken. I'm of the personality ryoe that wants to understand everything that interests me from first principles, but I'm getting old enough (and busy enough) that I've come to understand that just relying on experts is okay a lot of the time and nothing will get done if all I do is reinvent a lot of wheels.

  5. #25
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wokelandia
    I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but the biggest gains in handgun skill are often made by competing in USPSA.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  6. #26
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SE FL
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Welcome to pistol-forum. I joined this site in 2014, basically knowing nothing about guns. I'm also pretty analytical by nature, but didn't know what I didn't know. I still don't know a lot.

    I would suggest three things to think about, in terms of where to spend time as a new shooter. The first might surprise you, but it has to do with Mindset. I read somewhere Whenever you unholster a gun, you are making potentially life-altering decisions. It's true, if you think about it. So, I would familiarize myself with the laws of the state in which you reside, and do some reading on considerations for being armed. An excellent overview of that is in Andrew Branca's book, The Law of Self Defense:

    https://www.amazon.com/Law-Self-Defe.../dp/1943809143

    Mr. Branca's book will go into the legal aspects of using lethal force in self-defence. The point here is to have thought about the aftermath of a self-defense shooting, before it happens. A second book I highly recommend is by Mr. Tom Givens, which will give you an even broader overview of being armed, including many specific suggestions:

    https://www.amazon.com/Concealed-Car...s=books&sr=1-1

    Next, I would focus on Skillset. This would include a good, solid, introductory foundational pistol class with a regional instructor. There are many here who can suggest one in your area, if you post your zip code. You can also look up classes available, here, using this handy web search tool:

    http://www.firearmstraininghub.com/

    Your local gun store likely also has class options. Your Glock 34 will be fine in such a class. The instructor can advise what additional equipment (holster, belt, ammunition, etc.) you can expect to need for the class. Then (or while waiting for the class), I would focus on

    Toolset

    Safety is number one, of course. Your Glock is a very reliable, accurate, easy to shoot pistol. It's also fairly large, relatively speaking. It would be a good idea to get a solidly constructed Kydex holster designed specifically for it. Several site sponsors make good holsters, among them Dark Star Gear (www.darkstargear.com) and JM Custom Kydex (www.jmcustomkydex.com).

    As far as using your Glock at the range, absent specific instruction, an initial metric I would suggest for a first time shooter would be to consistently hit inside an 8" circle at 7 yards. If you can meet that standard, you'll be better than 80% of the shooters I typically see at my public shooting range of a weekend. If that seems easy, there are many other standards that you can strive to meet. If this is difficult, it would be best to get some in person instruction, as diagnosing shooting issues over the internet is pretty hard. So for your case, what you can currently achieve now, kind of drives where you can go and what you need to work on.

    Hope this helps. This is a great forum; I'm looking forward to reading the responses you get from the more experienced folks (which is most of them!) here.

    Rich
    I can’t help but quite this as it’s some of the best advice I’ve seen regarding these pursuits.

    1) Get your mind right
    2) Learn to shoot
    3) Get your gear sorted

    And the order matters IMO. If you’ve got your mind right then that will sit with you as your pursue 2 & 3. You can’t really un-fuck your gear until you know how to shoot, so you need some foundation in #2 before you move on to #3.

    Until all that, get yourself a Glock (that 34 isn’t going to be fun to carry and it should be a 19, but whatever), get some classes with just about any local boob (if they sound silly to you, find someone else. Good instructors have never sounded silly to me), and get yourself just about any decent holster that costs ~$75-100 (in my period experience there isn’t much garbage in that price range, provided you avoid gimmicks. Again, if it looks silly to you it probably is. Look for as few screws/attachment points as possible. Every joint is a potential failure point).
    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but the biggest gains in handgun skill are often made by competing in USPSA.
    Agreed-with the stipulation that just about any form of “practical” competition can be valuable when approached with the right attitude. I’ve personally shot competitions over the years to include the GLOCK Sport Shooting Foundation(GSSF), Steel Challenge,IDPA, IPSC/USPSA, Bianchi and Bullseye. In my mind, that progression is from simplest to most technical, gear wise; IPSC/USPSA being the most physical in terms of movement.
    It’s a jump for some to “step into the arena”, but the benefits, such as some stress “inoculation” and practice of proficiency are well documented.
    Many notable instructors/“gunfighters”have also been competitors: Askins, Walsh, Cooper, Ayoob, Rogers, Werner, Givens, p-f’s Mr. White-you get the idea...

  8. #28
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    @rob_s I wish I could take credit for it, but I stole derived the concept from Paul Sharp's excellent thread, here:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....actice-the-art

  9. #29
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    Welcome aboard! A Glock 34 was the first gun I ever carried concealed as well. Don't have much to add that hasn't been said above other than to say that this place also got me to think about what to do if I had to fight for control of my gun, which then led me down the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu rabbit hole from which I have yet to emerge.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  10. #30
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned yet, but the biggest gains in handgun skill are often made by competing in USPSA.
    I’m a big fan of Steel Challenge as a great way for a beginner to get their first experience with competition shooting. Less stage planning, plus shooting steel is just fun. I could be biased because it’s how I started, but looking back it was a nice progression and less stressful environment than USPSA to practice and get good at safe gun handling.

    Plus you’ll probably meet people there who also shoot USPSA, and they’ll be stoked when you show up at a USPSA match and happily show you the ropes.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

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