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Thread: CCW GP/K/L frame vs single stack auto, why?

  1. #1
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    CCW GP/K/L frame vs single stack auto, why?

    I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

    I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

    I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

    Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?

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  2. #2
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    I only carry a hammer fired gun if I'm going to carry appendix. I do not trust myself to be zero defect and want the extra layer of security against shooting myself. That means either a revolver or a Sig for me. I've tried appendix carrying a P229 and don't find it as comfortable or as concealable as a GP100 with compact grips. Some of that is almost certainly the holster I have for the P229 vs the GP100, but the combination of a longer gun with a smaller handle seems to work pretty well for me.

    I have been considering getting a holster for the P220 and seeing how that would work.

    I think there are advantages to a revolver and advantages to a magazine fed pistol, but I also think that they are mostly a wash for any real world application I'm likely to use them in off duty.
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  3. #3
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

    I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

    I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

    Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?

    @03RN @Stephanie B @Totem Polar @Rex G @BehindBlueI's @Zeke38
    “Caliber” is roughly equivalent, 0.357” versus 0.355” is insignificant. I use Speer Short Barrel .357, when I can get enough of it, in most of my .357 Mag revolvers. This load is just a bit hotter than the .38 Special +P Speer Short Barrel load, so, roughly like 9mm +P. I do carry the hotter stuff in my fully-lugged 4” GP100 revolvers, and in my longer-barreled weapons, but that is mostly to with longer-range shooting in mind.

    Hand Fit: Bingo! No handgun, on this planet, fits me as well as the original-pattern, pre-Hogue GP100 grip. My Speed Sixes, and K-Frames, are very nearly as good.

    Drills: If this means split times, well, no, I have not been concerned about split times, since I stopped carrying a .44 Magnum 629, which did produce seriously extended shot-to-back-on-target times, long before I heard anyone talk about “split times.” (That was March 1985; seems like a thousand years ago!) If we mean draw-and-fire drills, or transitioning between targets, well, we do have another bingo.

    It is all about hit accurate and fast hit potential. For my hands, my brain, and my nervous system, connected hands and brain, nothing beats a GP100. Other Ruger and S&W revolvers are so very close. Others’ hands, brains, and nervous systems may vary, so I am not trying to convince or convert anyone else.

    Notably, in these social-isolation times, I retain long-stroke DA revolvering skills much longer than Glocking skills. I have not been on a range in a very long time. I can shoot a G17 better than a G19*, and have carried both, on patrol, and off the clock, while trained-up, but would rather not defend myself, or others, with any Glock, right now. I fired a few .38 wadcutters, in a remote area, where legal, recently. (I wanted to keep the noise low, therefore the wadcutters.) I have plans to go to a better area, and train more, this week.

    *I actually mothballed my G19 pistols, shortly after my final active-duty qual, which was in late 2017. The heel of the grip frame does not meet the the “heel bone” of my hand, so they are less-stable, which vexes my aging right thumb/hand/wrist. A G17 is an “orthopedic” Glock. My G19X may well be gentle enough, too, when I am able to get to shoot enough rounds to confirm it.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

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  4. #4
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    I should add that I am not a die-hard sixgunner. My first pistol was a 1911, in 1982 or 1983, at which time I though revolvers were quaint relics. I had to learning DA revolver skills, in late 1983 and early 1984, while attending the Houston Police Academy, and then had to carry only DA revolvers, during my first year of sworn service, so, was motivated to train diligently. Revolvers grew on me.

    So, I like both auto-loaders and revolvers.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  5. #5
    I can conceal a K-frame with less printing than anything in the GLOCK 19 size range. A snub-nosed K will hide better than a G26 on the belt and just about as well as a J or LCR. Using a Hi-Grip, my combined round butt model 10 snub plus 2x2x2 pouch on opposite sides appendix print less than a G43 or S&W Shield.

    The revolver also has an excellent trigger, sights that work for me, and takes spare ammunition that can be carried in a number of ways from loose rounds to strips to loops to pouches to speedloaders. Reloading an auto confines me to a large, steel Pez dispenser. So I'm more likely to have one or two reloads on me and less likely for the cylinder to pop open than a magazine to wind up popped loose.

    But really, I just like revolvers and have chosen to go back to one on the belt for at least a while. I've found differences in drill times to be more a function of weapon fit, trigger, sights, and carry method than auto versus revolver. Particularly given my strong preference for DAO triggers.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    I can conceal a K-frame with less printing than anything in the GLOCK 19 size range. A snub-nosed K will hide better than a G26 on the belt and just about as well as a J or LCR. Using a Hi-Grip, my combined round butt model 10 snub plus 2x2x2 pouch on opposite sides appendix print less than a G43 or S&W Shield.
    The outer rear corners of the slides of striker-fired double-wide pistols are my concealment nemesis. A revolver with a small-spur hammer, or spur-less hammer, hides so much better, on my person.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  7. #7
    Because:

    1) I'm the most comfortable with handling a revolver (first learned on one).

    2) I prefer the more forgiving nature of a hammer-fired DA trigger when carrying IWB all day every day, including around the house, which I always do.

    3) It's statistically hugely unlikely I'll ever need to draw; if I do, it's even more unlikely I'll need to fire; and if I do, it's even more even more unlikely I'll need more rounds than a revolver carries.

    No one approach covers all possible risks, but in my quiet, normal life, a revolver more than suffices.
    Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?

  8. #8
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    It was when I finally got an AIWB K frame holster and tried it that I decided I wasn't so enthusiastic about K frames. For me, it's largely the thickness, but also the weight. I don't have issues printing the gun, it's the belt going around the holster that sticks out in front of me at the waist line like a 1980 MGB with its rubber bumpers. It just looks wrong in a weird and noticeable way. I had to work and work to get the overall thickness of the system down, even with a semi. I could pick up another 100-150 thousandths of thinness by dropping from a USPc to a 3953, but I'm not convinced at this point that it's worth giving up half the ammo to get there.

    Could probably say the same about a P365XL or G48, but the Glock grip angle screws me up compared to every other semi I have, and I won't carry a single-action with no safety, which is essentially what the Sig striker action is. I will probably mess with the 80% frame that puts a Sig grip angle on a G48 upper when it becomes available.

    I love my GPs, but the case for me carrying them is as an outdoor gun where open carry is acceptable, in a leather strong side OWB holster.
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  9. #9
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    I need to state this up front. I'm asking this strictly to try and understand the thought process behind carrying a roughly G19 size revolver as a primary in an urban environment. There is no snark or "you're doing it wrong" intended or implied.

    I've got a 3" GP that I occasionally think about getting a holster for but then I look at it and wonder why wouldn't I pack a 13+1 compact M&P9 with a second mag instead?

    I know there are some here who carry K frames and similarly sized revolvers as their primary CCW and I've seen a few mention it's an option when necessity dictates. Barring some issue such as traveling to or through some jurisdiction where a semi can be problematic but a revolver isn't, what is the reason behind carrying something roughly the size of a G19 that only has 5-7 rounds on board when a Shield/G43/43x/48/etc gives you the same number of rounds (or more in some cases) in a smaller package.

    Is it a caliber issue? Hand fit? A measurable improvement on drills?
    There’s a lot to unpack on this one, and I can only answer from my specific—and somewhat idiosyncratic—viewpoint, so here it goes:

    Number 1, I have 10s of ks of rounds through revolvers. A lot of my early myelination is on wheelies, and all of my very limited competition was done with wheelguns. On this forum, I am a truly middle-of-the-road shooter at best, but I do run wheelies reasonably well. But that’s not enough.

    Number 2, my work schedule is somewhat non-standard and seasonal, which means that during busy times, I can go 8-10 weeks without hitting the range. Of course, there are periods over the holidays and scattered throughout the summer where I can hit the range daily, if I were so interested as to want to stand in a box an punch paper every day. What this means for me is that there are times where I am basically an over-qualified sock-drawer, set-and-forget dude. It’s nice to know that if I had to, I could grab the old six-shooter and make it work, subconsciously—and that the old six shooter will go bang after 10 weeks of sitting around without my affections.

    Number 3, relatedly, I spend huge amounts of my life in NPEs. So it’s nothing, or sometimes a j-frame/LCR, so it makes sense to shoot them as much as I can and make a commitment to competence with the tool. I’ve shot a lot of rounds through 5-shot revolvers.

    Number 4–and this is the only one that will be controversial—I’ve still yet to find a truly reliable semi when run hard in training. I had better give an example: I had an otherwise boringly reliable gen 3 G17 that never bobbled on the range that simply wouldn’t run in my hands when I was cold, tired, and upside down with rainwater running up my nose and in the inside of my glasses. The obvious counter to that would be "yeah, how likely are you to be upside down and soaking wet in a gunfight?" I suppose that’s the big question, isn’t it. Regardless, I’m pretty sure that I can get off 5 or 6 in a grapple on the ground, because that’s one place where I had some success in moderately rough and tumble training. I’ve never had trouble with any 9mm Glock on the range—17s, 19s, 26s, 43s, 45... but in the back of my mind, I’m just not 100 percent sure under grappling pressure. OMMV on that, for sure, but that’s where I am with it.

    None of the above is to suggest that anyone else should make the same choice, and swap their G19 for a vintage M65, or their G43 for an LCR—let alone suggest that a wheelgun is a good idea in a duty context, but for my situation and lifestyle, I’ve become comfortable with the idea of revolvers, mostly. Mostly.

    Now, all that said, I’m currently sitting by the firebowl with a 1911. I’m not in and out of NPEs right now, and my covid-19 lifestyle currently sees me regularly rucking into black and grizzly bear territory one day, hitting the rack with the old gov’t model on nightstand duty, then doing a therapy walk in a downtown urban park with my wife the next morning, during times of admittedly very very minor local unrest. It’s not the best choice for any one of those environments, but it’s not a terrible choice either, if I don’t want to be switching it up every 24hours, and I know this one will run if I’m tired and in a weird position.

    Anyhoo, OMMV, and all that.

  10. #10
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    I just dont think that Ill run out of ammo if i need to draw my gun.

    I think its more likely that ill be walking through a parking lot or out in the woods and ill need very accurate fire. Or extremely up close and personal where 6 will do it.

    I will admit that ive been considering carry autos more in the current climate where armed "protesters" are blocking intersections and highways and gathering in mass.

    K frames are just more comfortable to carry and conceal better than like sized autos and better shooting than smaller ones. I can easily keep my 10x12 plate bouncing with my 66 at 30 yards. Not so much with a shield or cw9.

    I like .357s because of barriers or animals. I think 9mm is just fine for edc.

    I do often carry autos but when i do i remember why i prefer revolvers. And then, like yesterday when i was shooting my beretta i remember why i prefer shooting them too.

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