2021 Ford F-150 will update software over the air

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.motor1.com/news/423604/2...0-ota-updates/

Connectivity going forward certainly has advantages when it comes to vehicle maintenance, remotely troubleshooting problems, and plugging in software updates to improve various systems. Gathering data on features customers use can help guide Ford in determining costs for options and extras, and then there's the supplier/vendor side of the equation with various apps and services. We’ll likely have to wait until the new truck arrives before understanding the full scope of this system. For now, just know it's coming.

I'm not in the market for a new truck for hopefully at *least* another 5 years or so, but should I be concerned about vehicles going to OTA updates? Couldn't the manufacturer, in theory, brick my truck?

I drive a 4th gen Ram now and have no interest in the 5th gen. I don't like the dial shifter and I don't like the aesthetics of the exterior. Unless I hold out long enough for a 6th gen I think I'll likely go back to Ford with my next truck, but OTA stuff makes me nervous. I do really like the looks of the new interior, though, and the exterior is at least acceptable.

[JAD]

Live monitoring makes everything better, sincerely. We do it for high end propulsion equipment on cruise ships and the like, and they get radically better service and much more rapid product improvement. Being able to fix something in the canaries with a guy at a desk in Kansas City is pretty bitchin.

[mtnbkr]

should I be concerned about vehicles going to OTA updates? Couldn't the manufacturer, in theory, brick my truck?

Yes, you should be concerned. Not because the manufacturer will break your truck, but because security is hard and there will be vulnerabilities that are exploitable. My company was approached by an auto manufacturer last year to implement monitoring for "connected vehicles". That part of the market is very green right now.

Live monitoring makes everything better, sincerely.

Agreed.

We do it for high end propulsion equipment on cruise ships and the like, and they get radically better service and much more rapid product improvement. Being able to fix something in the canaries with a guy at a desk in Kansas City is pretty bitchin.

Security in large scale OT* is a *bit* more mature than in consumer-owned vehicles (or at least more known). However, it's still not great. There are a lot of otherwise obsolete systems out there managing our power grid, factories, etc. Stuff running on DOS, ancient versions of Windows, and embedded systems that were never intended to be connected to a global network, but now are.

Know how everyone is concerned about the inherent lack of security in the IoT? OT (including consumer autos) isn't a lot better and can be worse due to the age of the tech in question (OT can be in place for decades).

I won't have a "connected" vehicle until I see some real effort put into securing the vehicles or a definitive way for the consumer to turn off OTA updates and access.

Also, we haven't even touched on the risk to privacy. If they can "touch" your car remotely to "update" it, what else can they access and learn? The risk to consumer privacy was a major risk I identified in the connected car project I mentioned. GDPR was believed to have applied once the specter was raised. The rest of the world has strong privacy controls, the US does not.

*OT=Operational Technology

Chris

[Grey]

Live monitoring makes everything better, sincerely. We do it for high end propulsion equipment on cruise ships and the like, and they get radically better service and much more rapid product improvement. Being able to fix something in the canaries with a guy at a desk in Kansas City is pretty bitchin.

Live monitoring makes everything better as long as your hardware/software doesn't become legacy and unsupported and can be replaced as necessary... Industrial Control Systems wants to say hello...

[littlejerry]

I think the biggest concern is ongoing support. Many software companies have gone to a subscription based model. Consider many "outdated" OS's are now unsupported and users have been told they they are on their own. "Sorry, if you don't want sum dood in India to hack you please upgrade to our new subscription service!"

For a mature technology I'd be inclined to buy as-is with known deficiencies rather than have the rug pulled out from under me later on.

[mtnbkr]

Ongoing support is already a concern without OTA. My 2013 Focus gets updates to its software, just not OTA. I have to take it to a dealer and have them plug the car into a computer in order to modify the software.

The concern here, at least with me, is the OTA nature of these updates and how well the system and the remote access element of it is going to be secured against unauthorized access. It has already been proven cars can be hacked and remotely manipulated, though OTA wasn't a factor. OTA will just make it easier.

Have a gander at the OWASP Top 10 if you want to see how repetitive certain design and coding weaknesses are in the online world. Now imagine those weaknesses being translated to your vehicle. OWASP is concerned with online apps, but many of the Top 10 would apply to an OTA system in autos (Broken Auth, Sensitive Data Exposure, Broken Access Control, Security Misconfig, Using Components With Known Vulnerabilities, Insufficient Logging and Monitoring).

Chris

[farscott]

This is an area in which I have some tangential involvement as we supply some modules to OEMs that can be updated OTA. Right now, the simple answer is not all OEMs are at the same place when it comes to security. I cannot say too much, but my last new vehicles are 2017 MY Ford Taurus and Mustang which do not support OTA, and there is no way I am ever buying the first year's production of any new vehicle with a new architecture and/or platform. That lesson goes back to the 1990s when I worked for an OEM and launched four model years of product.

There will be bugs and holes, and it will take some time for them to be patched or architected out of the vehicle systems.

[Stephanie B]

I think the biggest concern is ongoing support.

When one considers that a reasonably maintained car or truck will last twenty years or more, that's a real concern.

(Well, maybe not for me. I'm going to run my '05 Honda until the wheels fall off.)

[Hambo]

I've always liked the looks of 2nd Generation GMC C-series pickups, and this thread confirms that I need one.

[rob_s]

I've always liked the looks of 2nd Generation GMC C-series pickups, and this thread confirms that I need one.

Just because society, trends, and generations seem so intent on being contrary, I keep wondering at what point do we see a “down with technology” generation that goes out looking for old analog items in an effort to be (or appear to be) the least technological. There’s some amount of that already with “mantiques” and the like, but at some point I wonder if it doesn’t become mainstream enough to really start driving prices up, and possibly even influence new manufacturing. I’d love a new-manufacture Jeep or Miata type car that eliminated all of the whiz-bang and was very stripped down.

But I also want a pre-blue-oval f100 or f150...