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Thread: Proper Thumb Positions with Massad Ayoob

  1. #1

    Proper Thumb Positions with Massad Ayoob


  2. #2
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    @Mas

    One thing I really appreciate about Mas is his lack of a dogmatic approach and presentation of the strengths and weaknesses of different techniques.

    I went to flagged thumb when shooting Sigs because of riding the slide release on the double stacks. An added benefit was it made it easier to shoot with both eyes open as the thumb occluded the left eye's view of the front sight and made it easier for my brain to see the sight and the target. The pectoral index is something I think I first learned from @SouthNarc and is now taught by our range staff as well.

    I do curl the thumb down shooting one handed, for the reasons Mas mentioned, and do still shoot revolvers thumbprint to thumbnail.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #3
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post

    I do curl the thumb down shooting one handed, for the reasons Mas mentioned, and do still shoot revolvers thumbprint to thumbnail.
    Same here. Thumbs forward for shooting Glocks with two hands as they do not interfere with the controls...for me.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  4. #4
    Good review on thumb placement. Personally, taught/used thumbs locked down for years, then was detailed to FLETC FAD in 2008 where teaching “thumbs forward grip” was required for all trainees. So, I switched to that grip. Can’t say my scores/recoil control really changed either way. Now, for one handed weapon retention technique, locking your thumb down vastly increases keeping possession of your duty handgun from a bad guy. Mostly carrying revolvers in retirement, so thumbs locked down these days.

  5. #5
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    "It's not a religion, it's an evolving art and science." Well stated Mr. Ayoob. I've tried thumbs forward like all the cool kids, but it didn't improve my shooting, so I went back to thumbs down like I was taught. Just more comfortable and confident that way, and now that I'm on a revolver craze as of late, I'm right at home.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    I enjoyed both the video and the delivery. Thanks for posting it.

  7. #7
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    I enjoyed both the video and the delivery. Thanks for posting it.
    Everything ^.
    Excellent treatment of the topic.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #8
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    Nice video.

    I was reading @Mas in the mid-late 80s, in the gun rags, every month, and he informed many of my early technique decisions. In the early 90s, when I was carrying a revolver in high risk assignments with sixteen hours of training, my dry practice was key, and Stressfire was my training guide. (The Truth About Self Protection was my first Mas book and I still have a copy, still find it relevent.) Thumb print over thumb nail for most revolvers, support thumb across the back of the strong thumb for snubbies.

    I had a couple of Beretta 92s in the safe for a few years and Academy cadets were allowed supervised dry practice before being issued a G17, a G19, or a 92SF. They had a year to carry the issue piece, and then were required to buy a gun off an approved list. I fell into the LASD approach, and taught my guys the 45 degree thumb, and strongly suggested that if a gun had a manual safety you should probably carry it 'on safe', and if you weren't able to commit to learning to work the manual safery, maybe you really wanted a gun without one. I was carrying a Sig P229 at the time. I felt vindicated a while back when Chuck Haggard and Doc Roberts both had seen saves with on safe 3rd gen Smiths, a much less user friendly slide mounted safety, but still very useable with the 45 degree thumb. My feeling is still the same: if the gun has a safety, use it!

    When I switched to a 1911 I rode the safety thumbs forward. My particular 1911 could not drop the slide overhand with a shock buff installed. I spent a lot of time using both thumbs to drop the slide. My digits were long enough, but some of my shooters had smaller hands and I had to be able to demo and teach strong side thumb and support side thumb to drop the slide. I also taught overhand; and support side fingers, for the wrong handed, for those interested. The 1911 also has a safety that was always used.

    When I wanted to play with optics a couple of years ago I wanted the "mount of all optics, ideal for none" and went with the G17 MOS. I just transitioned from an issue M&P9, and the Vickers Slide Stop was immediately installed. I had spent so long dropping the slide with my thumb, and the Vickers worked so much better for me than stock. Aggressive thumbs forward lead intermittent failures to lock back on empty magazines. So I remembered an old Lightfighter thread where Dagga Boy showed his prererred Glock grip, where the strong hand thumb gets flagged out, and then goes forward on the outside of the support hand thumb. Support side thumb against the gun, and both thumbs pointed to the target. Kept the strong side thumb away from the slide stop, allowed the camming feeling that Vogel describes, allowed what felt to me to be a stronger crush grip, and solved the problem of the failures to lock back. It also works well with @SouthNarc 's Thumb Pec index, which I not only use for retention shooting, but for opening doors and other tasks requiring one hand during building searches.

    pat

  9. #9
    Member wvincent's Avatar
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    Outstanding info.
    Key for me, switching to thumb down when shooting one handed.
    I now have my weekend shooting assignment.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
    "Just because a girl sleeps with her brother doesn't mean she's easy..."-Blues

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp View Post
    I FIXED the slide bite on the web of the thumb of my dominant hand when I grip my g43x with this video.

    Sent from my SM-P205 using Tapatalk

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