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Thread: Latest and Greatest in non-LE Civilian Armor?

  1. #21
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    yeah I agree. I'm curious what actual armor I have inside the thing but I bet it's fine.
    You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.

    You haven't really stated your needs, but the LPAC is excellent, highly versatile, and still a front-runner for what its made for. We've issued them for a while now. Given you're the anti-LARP extraordinaire, I'm not sure how well it matches your weekend activities and what you need/want.

    Lacking other context, I would say the only thing you should do is, 1) check the armor and replace if its dyneema, 2) add a First Spear tubes system if you want to make it easier to don/doff.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  2. #22
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    SAPI plates in a bcs lo pro. Weighs 12lbs. I run 10-15 miles per week in it then its playtime.
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  3. #23
    Site Supporter Sero Sed Serio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.
    How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."

    I'm also very interested in the groupthink on this topic. I've been considering picking up a Mayflower APC, as my needs have definitely changed: mobility and ability to access concealment-type holsters is now a higher priority than side protection. I've been very happy with the Mayflower/Velocity offerings, but am open to suggestions if there's a better mousetrap.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sero Sed Serio View Post
    How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."

    I'm also very interested in the groupthink on this topic. I've been considering picking up a Mayflower APC, as my needs have definitely changed: mobility and ability to access concealment-type holsters is now a higher priority than side protection. I've been very happy with the Mayflower/Velocity offerings, but am open to suggestions if there's a better mousetrap.
    Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.

    I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #25
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    You'll want to check the armor. Mayflower/Velocity offers both Dyneema and Aramid. If its Aramid it's fine. If it's dyneema, replacing it would be prudent. We are currently on a 5 year replacement schedule. Note that aramid will do better with contact shots, though I'm not sure if the LPAC 06 Aramid inserts are tested/rated by the FBI or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sero Sed Serio View Post
    How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.
    I pulled out my soft armor and plates. This is what I found. Sero, look like the same tag on you soft insert?

    Rear soft panel. 2008!
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    Rear plate. Just for shits & giggles
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    Rear plate weighs 6lbs 1.35 oz (scale keeps flashing back and forth between 1.3 and 1.4)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    You haven't really stated your needs, but the LPAC is excellent, highly versatile, and still a front-runner for what its made for. We've issued them for a while now. Given you're the anti-LARP extraordinaire, I'm not sure how well it matches your weekend activities and what you need/want.
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.
    I probably don’t really have a major current need. Can’t remember if I posted here or in the war belt thread but I originally “needed” armor because I wanted to take a Pat Rogers shoot house class, and this seemed the best option for me based largely on the things you mention. At the time, it didn’t seem to me to make much sense to buy an un-concealable armor system when there was a somewhat concealable option available. Having encountered enough pre- and post-hurricane weirdness in a lifetime in Florida, and given that I “needed” armor, being able to potentially use it for something other than training (however LARPy) seemed a good idea.

    Now, frankly, I have it, I’m not going to sell it or trash it, so getting it up to spec and stashing it somewhere more accessible seems a not-bad idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Lacking other context, I would say the only thing you should do is, 1) check the armor and replace if its dyneema, 2) add a First Spear tubes system if you want to make it easier to don/doff.
    Since you seem to have experience with the armor system, and I haven’t seen a Tubes since seeing them at SHOT the year they were introduced, how do they get installed on this carrier, and do they impact the concealability of the system and/or are they easily removed to restore the carrier to its concealable glory?
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  6. #26
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Googling my model # got me this, so it looks like it’s Aramid. I also found some reference to “Twaron” which rings a bell...

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Since you seem to have experience with the armor system, and I haven’t seen a Tubes since seeing them at SHOT the year they were introduced, how do they get installed on this carrier, and do they impact the concealability of the system and/or are they easily removed to restore the carrier to its concealable glory?
    Experience with the LPAC, but not the First Spear tubes. There's various tube cummerbunds available as well as female-end adapters for velcro closure cummerbunds......I imagine there's no reason you can't just buy one and swap the cummerbunds at will.

    I was thinking about getting one this summer, but I haven't yet. No idea how it impacts concealability.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sero Sed Serio View Post
    How can I tell the difference? I have a '13 Mayflower LPAC with IIIA soft inserts, but besides VS-13A, they don't specify material. An online search only says "DuPont Kevlar."
    Kevlar is an aramid. Dyneema is a specific brand of UHMWPE spun fiber.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Sero Sed Serio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Keep in mind that the LPAC actually has better side protection for vital organs than traditional armor cuts, due to the higher coverage. More traditional cuts like SPEAR/BALCS have more armor lower, but less armor as high as the LPAC. Whereas the LPAC is the Noveske N4 of barrels, SPEAR/BALCS is the US Gov't Profile of barrels, with all the mass in the wrong place. So, it's actually the best of both worlds.....better coverage and better agility.

    I don't want to give you wrong info on the armor makeup, I would suggest contacting VS with your serial number.
    As someone who is constantly railing about the stupidity of Gov't profile barrels, I like the analogy!

    While I agree that the LPAC offers great side protection, I'm looking for something that can be donned over everyday clothes without interfering with my draw stroke from a concealment or low-profile holster. I'm looking at carriers with just front and back protection, and no armor in the cumberbunds, like the APC: https://www.skdtac.com/Mayflower-Ass...-p/mfr.512.htm, although I'm curious about other similar products. I think ESAPI or shooter's cut would best suit my needs?

    Another major consideration is that I want something that will fit in a backpack along with a PDW; my current carrier with its side protection would be much harder to stuff in.

    I'm planning on keeping my current carrier no matter what, so I'll have options. More than likely the LPAC will live at home and the APC will live in the PDW backpack.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I pulled out my soft armor and plates. This is what I found. Sero, look like the same tag on you soft insert?
    Here's mine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Kevlar is an aramid. Dyneema is a specific brand of UHMWPE spun fiber.
    As near as I can tell, the VS-13 (mine) is kevlar, while the VS-33 is Dyneema. From what I can tell the VS-13 is out of production; I'm only seeing VS-33 stuff available.

  10. #30
    here's that Paul Howe article that was discussed earlier: https://www.combatshootingandtactics...heavy-or-light

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