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Thread: Nose over toes vs. more neutral stance and pre-ignition push.

  1. #61
    Thanks to everyone who chimed back in!

    @RevolverRob - you are definitely correct that I am frustratingly slow to acquire the target from the low ready. I've started adding reps in dryfire now to work on that. Adding in the drill without trigger press you mentioned as of yesterday.

    I should note though that the split times on Gabe White drills were pretty much in line with what I mentioned in post #15 of this thread "for me thats 0.22-0.46 splits" so it wasn't a new benchmark of splitting that day. But I hadn't realized the detail you bring up that accuracy isn't dropping off linearly. It's that under 0.45 or so that I start to fall apart fastest at. Thank you for taking the time to analyze and point that out.


    @45dotACP - Bjj analogies to shooting very much speak to me. I'm very curious if a similar attitude to training BJJ applied to shooting will yield similar results (hopefully). I've been meaning to start a "is BJJ like shooting?" thread in the combative section to see what participants of both sports think.





    Shot "the Test" (10x10x10) again today cold as the first drill for live fire. Finally brought it in under par this time at 9.1 Score was 94 so it cost me a couple of points. First shot was still an ice age slow 1.34 so I definitely need to work on my sight acquisition from the low ready. I mostly made up the time by keeping splits more consistent to 0.8 with only one veering back over a second towards the end again. I'm thinking I fatigue by the end of a 10 shot string perhaps?

    I'm not sure how much time/ammo to devote to that B8. My ammo budget is pretty strictly limited to 100 rounds per week for the next year at least.
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  2. #62
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    94 in 9.1 is a solid score.

    I'd keep working on your grip/sights/trigger press/follow through and drive on with a 94 in 9.1. You've leapt the mental hurdle to achieve success on it. At this point you can just use it to monitor your self as a baseline kind of thing. The nice thing about that drill is while it doesn't push you to be the fastest, it requires you to maintain fundamentals to be successful. Likely as you practice you'll see you'll move up and down in total points scored, but generally down in terms of time it takes to run the drill. Since it takes just 10 rounds and it's a widely used drill with good standards, I would plan to run The Test every other week for a while. You can mix in another standard and alternate them.

  3. #63
    I put away "the test" for all of my July live fire and just came back to it today. It seems like my best shooting when splits are in the 0.5-1.0 second range comes when I'm cold, after a week of dryfire trigger pulls with no bang, and haven't had a chance to start re-programming my pre-ignition push/flinch back in.

    In live fire, I've been doing ball and dummy after every few strings of fire to work on my preignition push and although I'm seeing small gradual improvement, whenever I encounter the surprise dummy round there's that noticeable push/dip in the sites every time. Alternate ball and dummy when I know the dummy round is coming and the sights stay stable. I'm hoping that over time, this slowly tells my brain to behave the same way whether or not there's a bang. But clearly the surprise dummy round is telling me that I'm not past this stage.

    Increasingly I've been thinking @YVK nailed it back on page one with
    "1. Toes-nose stance positions you so that it makes easier for you to transmit unneeded inputs into your gun. The pre-ignition push can come from hands or shoulders or both, so maybe something plays out biomechanically.

    2. Lean forward stance is generally more aggressive than neutral and this physical expression of aggressiveness may lead to a mental tension as opposed to staying overall neutral, physically and mentally. Mental tension will certainly cause physical tension. I've experienced that quite often. This something you need to sort out yourself through introspection and live fire. Dry might not help as much."




    As for the cold B8 at 10 yards test today, I'm as slow as ever to get on target from low ready with a 1.34 time to first shot (exactly the same as last time). I just tried to keep the sights in the black of the B8 and get the drill behind me. Was mainly annoyed that it felt like I wasn't going to be fast enough to make the par and never really parked the sights on the X the whole time.

    I was surprised that after being completely annoyed with myself during the string of fire, I ended up with with a 99 completed in 8.67. I'm not quite sure what to think about that. If it's dumb luck, lack of flinch at the start of a session after a week of dryfire, or the adjustments to my grip I'd been working on over the last week in dryfire.
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  4. #64
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Oct 2016
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    Central Texas
    I like the Stoeger almost horse stance crouch, so you're ready to immediately start running(or my case ambling in a cow like fashion).

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