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Thread: The Ken Nelson Recoil- Control Grip: I like it!

  1. #11
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    When shooting SHO, I flag my thumb as shown. However, I have also observed that when shooting at distance, freestyle, if my thumb is flagged the gun can pivot around that strong point. Meaning shots can trend left.

    This is a technique that serves me well when shooting SHO, but not ideal for freestyle.
    Taking a break from social media.

  2. #12
    I think @Surf has explained the grip far better than I could. If you haven't read this I highly recommend checking it out.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ts-on-the-grip

    -Cory

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CCT125US View Post
    When shooting SHO, I flag my thumb as shown. However, I have also observed that when shooting at distance, freestyle, if my thumb is flagged the gun can pivot around that strong point. Meaning shots can trend left.

    This is a technique that serves me well when shooting SHO, but not ideal for freestyle.

    Very slightly related, I'm bemused by the trend to stipple the frame where the thumbs would fall. You can get exactly zero downward pressure there, no matter which fancy stippling pattern you use, so any force will only serve to push the pistol laterally since there's nothing on other side to counter the pressure. (Gas pedal would change things, obv.)

    Brian Enos recommend floating your thumbs and not even have them touch the frame for this exact reason - to not drive the gun toward your strong side.

  4. #14
    Hammertime
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Not a binary thing. TPC's claim to fame is not what Ken can do with a gun. It is getting two pre-teen girls to become the dominant forces in USPSA and then punching M/GM cards younger than any other non-gender-fluid woman. I do believe that they think and talk through biomechanics better than anybody else. My problem with their stuff that I find it hard to apply, including some things that were mentioned on this video.
    I seem to remember you or someone saying those girls demo a TPC 24 with a hit factor of like 16? That is crazy impressive for someone who probably has half my grip strength.

  5. #15
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    TPC is definitely on my short list of training. I’d scheduled a class but had to request a refund (which was cheerfully provided, no questions asked).

    On topic: Very interested as I have medium strength, and am forever shooting low and away on doubles or Bill Drills. I usually try and grip harder with my support hand (so much, I usually take my wedding ring off to shoot) but it kinda hurts when I smoosh my strong hand.

    So I watched the video, but am unclear exactly what he’s saying? (I am hearing a lot of wind buffetting, so it might be me) Can someone break it down, Horsey-Ducky level?
    Still trying to figure the technique proposed in the OP.

    Should I take my strong hand and apply anti-recoil torque at the bottom front of the grip with my Ring and Pinky fingers, at the same time forcing up into the beaver tail with my strong hand web?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post

    Should I take my strong hand and apply anti-recoil torque at the bottom front of the grip with my Ring and Pinky fingers, at the same time forcing up into the beaver tail with my strong hand web?
    That's what it suggests.

    No disrespect to Ken and TPC, they are good, I took two classes from them, but I have tried and assessed pressure on the bottom of a frontstrap advice as a pile of junk. This is not new and not unique to them. I've heard about it many years ago and from more than one place. Intuitively and from physics standpoint it makes total sense, simple math of leverages. Practically, if you want to additionally tense up your ring and pinky, you'll tense up the whole grip. This will create (has created for me) more problems than solutions. Most of us have difficulty isolating trigger finger alone, I can't imagine one can isolate all five fingers in three groups of different states of tension. Getting high on a gun is a universal truth though, so I just stick with it.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  7. #17
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by cor_man257 View Post
    I think @Surf has explained the grip far better than I could. If you haven't read this I highly recommend checking it out.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ts-on-the-grip

    -Cory
    Good stuff Cory. @Surf’s ‘hook and curl’ suggestion for increasing space between finger and frame is interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    That's what it suggests.

    No disrespect to Ken and TPC, they are good, I took two classes from them, but I have tried and assessed pressure on the bottom of a frontstrap advice as a pile of junk. This is not new and not unique to them. I've heard about it many years ago and from more than one place. Intuitively and from physics standpoint it makes total sense, simple math of leverages. Practically, if you want to additionally tense up your ring and pinky, you'll tense up the whole grip. This will create (has created for me) more problems than solutions. Most of us have difficulty isolating trigger finger alone, I can't imagine one can isolate all five fingers in three groups of different states of tension. Getting high on a gun is a universal truth though, so I just stick with it.
    Thanks. Maybe the OP could give his take on it, I genuinely was unsure what was being suggested in the video.

  8. #18
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by randyflycaster View Post
    I have always pulled my shots to the side. I never cared for the death grip, as I don't find it an enjoyable way to shoot, and I am not up for doing grip-stengthening exercies.

    I watched this video and changed my grip.

    Randy
    Could you elaborate on what this change was? I watched the video and might have missed it.

  9. #19
    Member randyflycaster's Avatar
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    I now add forward pressure on the top of the back of the grip with my strong hand. With my support hand I add a little backward pressure with my ring finger (and pinky if my grip is long enough). I keep my support hand fingertips off the grip to help me break the habit of milking the gun. I guess you can call this a variation of a push/pull technique, with the main difference being where on the gun I am pushing and pulling: Pushing high on the back of the grip, pulling low on the front of the grip.

    To each his own. I've been struggling with my pistol shooting since moving to Montana over 4 years ago. I took lessons, but I was still pulling my shots. Now that I using Ken Nelson's grip I am shooting much, much better, without crushing the gun, which I do not find very enjoyable.

    Randy

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    Could you elaborate on what this change was? I watched the video and might have missed it.
    To me it sounded a bit like @Paul Sharp 's take on grip and recoil control. I think he was heavily influenced by D.R. Middlebrooks. I'll try to insert a YouTube video playlist. I think video 15 of the playlist really shows it in detail. Here is the direct link to video 15 in case the entire playlist doesn't link with the embedded video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEDX...L9Ifj&index=15


    By way of summery, as I understand it, this has to do with visualizing the handgun grip as a fulcrum and lever. The "fulcrum" would be the area high on the "tang" of the grip. The "lever" becomes more mechanically useful by applying force to the bottom of the front strap with the pinkie finger area. Concentrating force primarily on these two points has the effect of chocking (as in wheel chock) the flipping movement of the gun.

    It sounds very similar to what is being discussed in the OP's video. I think the idea is that just gripping HARD isn't as productive as applying the force into these particular vectors and then just letting the gun track as it will. It seems a slightly different point of emphasis than what Bob Vogel (apply torque as high and forward as possible to the sides of the grip by rolling the elbows up/out) or Mike Seeklander (clam-shell the grip like trying to break a walnut between your palms and get "behind" the grip).

    At least that is how I understand it.

    These days I seem to be more accurate by focusing primaraly on "Seeklander" with a strong secondary focus on "Paul Sharp". I can probably shoot faster with "Vogel" if I'm using a Glock, but my consistent accuracy at distance seems to suffer, and I tend to get a little wrist pain when focusing on this force vector.

    I don't think this stuff is a one size fits all proposition. People are built different, and they are at different stages of development as individual shooters. Changing how you focus the force vectors in your grip may be a developmental process that continues throughout your shooting life. We will all grow older and have injuries eventually, after all.

    Edit to add: The embedded video didn't seem to create the playlist 'Paul Sharp Recoil Mitigation'. Here is a link that should work to view all the videos in order.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Zq...qL9Ifj&index=1
    Last edited by frozentundra; 06-16-2020 at 11:07 AM.

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