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Thread: Carbine fundamentals/dry fire exercises?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango-papa View Post
    Not criticizing you at all, so hope you don't take it that way.
    In my opinion/experience, you really cannot learn what you are saying you want to learn, from books/videos and then training on your own.
    Having said that, training with legitimate guys is not cheap and neither are the costs associated with same (especially right now with the spike in ammo prices).
    However, if you do your homework and then spend money training with a legitimate instructor who knows how to properly teach/train, it's worth every dime spent.

    As a long time fan of Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch and having trained with him, suggest look at/consider:

    1) Look at some of his videos on Youtube and Instagram (I have an Instagram account specifically so I can look at the TR account content) and see if you like his style. If you don't care for what you see/hear, disregard all that follows. The recent videos you see on his yt/instagram page are an accurate representation of Clint's demeanor as he does not "act" for the camera.

    2) Get Clint's books - Urban Rifle and Urban Rifle 2. The man knows what he's talking about after 50 years using, training and teaching use of the AR.
    Clint also has several training videos you can purchase to go along with the books.
    There's also a Thunder Ranch Master USB Collection with hours of content available for purchase.

    3) Take the Thunder Ranch Urban Rifle course.


    Also suggest suggest look at/consider:

    Paul Howe/CSAT (Combat Shooting & Tactics) in Nacogdoches, TX.
    Paul just released a new book and has a video on his website addressing the reason(s) for the new book.

    I have Paul's new book on order and having read his previous books, already know it will be excellent.
    Paul has several videos online that will give you a sense for his demeanor/style. Additionally he also has training videos you can purchase.

    I have not yet had the opportunity to train at CSAT, however, it's on my short list.
    A few guys I know and trust have trained with Paul, and I trust their experience/endorsement.


    Obviously there are other trainers out there who are good to go.
    The specific suggestions above might be a good fit for you based on your stated goals/objectives.


    Finally, suggest consider a dedicated .22lr AR upper to reduce training/ammo costs running live fire drills on your own.
    I have a Tactical Solutions AR M4 .22LR Complete upper and it's been very reliable in that role.
    I got mine from CSTactical (they currently have them in stock).
    If you get one, be sure to also get a "pressure plug" to keep the bolt properly seated (I have a TACCOM Pressure plug, but they are no longer available).
    Here's a pressure plug that looks to be good to go:
    https://borebuddy.com/product/22lr-plug/
    I agree that taking actual training will provide far more value than self training via books and videos.

    The main issue with both Clint Smith and Paul Howe (and Gunsite) is you have to "go to the mountain" which increases cost. Clint Smith is also a bit pricey for the actual material taught. You are, to some degree paying for the "Clint experince."

    If you are willing to "go to them" I would add Jim Smith (no relation) at Spartan Tactical in the DFW area.

    There are numerous traveling trainers who do carbine classes and will, eventually, come to your area or somewhere in driving distance. I can recommend the following with confidence:

    Steve Fisher / Sentinel Concepts
    Mike Pannone CTT Soloutions
    Jon Dufresne Kinetic Consulting
    Aaron Cowan Sage Dynamics
    Pat MacNamara TMACS
    Mike Glover Field Craft Survival

    There are many other good instructors such as Mike Green / Green Ops who don't travel much or like Chuck Pressburg Presscheck Consulting whose material is better suited for more advanced students.

    Another good option is attending a training symposium such as the Shooters Symposium coming up in Eagle Lake Texas this fall. Like some of the various state tactical LE conferences it allows you to "sample" multiple 2-4 hour blocks with various instructors to see who is a good "fit" for you.

    Re: .22s

    I've had great experience with my CMMG .22 upper and the S&W M&P15-22. The downside to the S&W is it is much lighter than a "real: AR. I have a PSA .22 upper which takes the same Blackdog mags as the CMMG. It had some teething issues and required some chamber polishing to run reliably. I do definitely recommend a complete upper vs a conversion kit. I would look for one that actually works as much like a real AR as possible.

    Since you are starting from scratch I have a friend who is a dedicated competition shooter has been very pleased with the Tippman .22 ARs. Last I heard he had over 15k rounds though his example without issues.
    Last edited by HCM; 07-12-2020 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #32
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    Live video coaching and analysis by a "been there, done that" person.
    I also completely agree on practicing malfunction clearance and rifle manipulation - something one can do dry and at home. Look for "5 little kittens" on youtube.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gater View Post
    I took the bait and ordered one: free shipping on that, FWIW. Looks like there may be a shipping delay (they may make these to order).

    I'll be curious to see if they are molded with the follower pinned down--some of my Glock mags are, some (older, I believe) aren't.
    Received today—very fast. To answer my own question, follower was presumably pinned during molding as it will not lock the bolt to the rear. Weight is 16.4 oz on my scale, which I believe is right on.

  4. #34
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    He doesn’t talk about loading and unloading (unless I missed it) and he doesn’t transition to pistol the way I do (which is probably a pretty pointless skill for the most part) but there’s decent stuff here. Just ignore all the faux-doctor speak.

    Pretty much all the techniques he’s describing are pretty traditional, which is good.

    Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.

  5. #35
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Eventually after you spend more time with the gun, you’ll develop your own methods and opinions. Do you engage the safety when you reload? Do you transition to handgun with the ejection port facing out or in? Does your tac-load involve holding two mags at once in your hand or only one at a time? Do you do non-diagnostic mall clearance or diagnostic?

    And if you start to mix in other types of guns like the AK or FAL you may find yourself changing your manipulations to work across multiple platforms.
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  6. #36
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Good stuff on reloads here. I have not traditionally been a fan of the (over) manipulation of the safety during manipulations, but using it as a means of indicating the carbine status is the best reason I’ve heard for doing it that way.

    I also like that they go over the left-handed manipulations a bit. I happen to agree with Steve that you don’t need a bunch of snowflake shit to shoot the gun left handed.

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  7. #37
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    Just throwing a simple drill out for Nephrology. I have been evaluating two different scope options the last month and I needed a benchmark to compare my personal performance with each. This is derived from a drill Jeff Gonzales gave me 16 years ago.

    Target: 5" circle with a solid concentric 3" circle inside (all black), print them on a conventional 8.5x11 piece of paper. I staple them to a cardboard backer.

    Name:  circle dot target.jpg
Views: 575
Size:  21.8 KB

    Scoring: I score it IDPA style, total time with 0 seconds down for hits in the black, 1 second for hits in the circle not in the black, 3 seconds for hits still on the office paper but not in the circle, 5 seconds for a miss on the office paper.

    Course of fire, 20 rounds, I am shooting on a timer with the random delayed start, from low ready. 5 targets are horizontally dispersed across the range and I place them at 10 yards, 15 yards, 25 yards, 35 yards, 50 yards distance. I shoot timed strings of 1 round each, Virginia count (no makeup shots). 4 strings, near to far, left to right, far to near, right to left. That effectively changes the target sequence for each string.

    What this course does for me is emphasize target to target transition, target acquistion, and using the correct holdover. I figured it was as good as any for me to compare a pair of non-magnified red dot scopes and how I am able to perform with each, but it has also been a good skills drill as I have run it. My carbine skills suck and have badly deteriorated since I had to quit the 3-gun game and the carbine matches back in 2011. I have improved a lot the last three weeks from running it. It has especially helped me get the holdover thing back into my skull.

    You could partially load your mags and insert all sorts of reload drills into the course of fire (e.g. only run with 3 mags, 7 rounds each, etc.). I don't, in my personal context the reload is not such and important factor or skill at this point as it was when I was in competition.

  8. #38
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    I used to NOT engage the safety when reloading on an empty mag, until an exercise at Street Fighter class.
    The exercise was an open ended "work different positions around the car" for a magazine's worth. I ran dry, reloaded and decided it was time to let someone else have a go and stepped off the line to visit the facilities.
    On my way there, I looked down, and the rifle was off safe. After that, I always put it on safe when doing bolt lock reloads.

  9. #39
    Nice drill, @fatdog.
    I’ll put one here, with the caveat that the presentations/manipulations can and should be practiced dry. It’s almost a cliche that dry fire should be part of a program, but I’m here to tell you it works-just do the work, even a few minutes each week. And then, a shooting evaluation:
    “The Wizened Carbiner”(apologies to Hackathorn)
    One USPSA/IDPA/whatever target of your choice. Basic silhouette, with a center body zone(8”) and upper zone-circle, 3x5, I’m not dogmatic on the target.
    All strings start from a ready of choice-low, high, muzzle up-but oriented toward target.
    String 1: 5 yards, 1 round to “head” in 1.5 seconds.
    S2: 10 yards, 3 rounds, body, 3 seconds
    S3: 15 yards, 2 rounds loaded(1chambered, 1 round in mag). Shoot two,reload 2 in 10 seconds.
    S4: 25 yards, 1 round to body, 1 head in 5 seconds.
    Here’s the rub: a complete miss is a FAIL. More than one OT, a FAIL. No more than two out of center zones=FAIL.
    I’ll try it this weekend as a sort of competency test. I’m sure many here can accomplish-but how many AR owners could?
    Thanks for reading

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    He doesn’t talk about loading and unloading (unless I missed it) and he doesn’t transition to pistol the way I do (which is probably a pretty pointless skill for the most part) but there’s decent stuff here. Just ignore all the faux-doctor speak.

    Pretty much all the techniques he’s describing are pretty traditional, which is good.

    He's good at refining procedures by removing unnecessary movement. Some instructors like to come up with their own method for the sake of being different, like yanking back on the charging handle on a bolt lock reload instead of just hitting the bolt release.

    I like his method of reloading the AK as well. No one will argue that reloads with the AK are slower than the AR, but you can shave a lot of time by not doing the hack and chop method that really just looks cool on video.


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