**POSTS CULLED FROM ANOTHER THREAD AND ADDED TO THIS ONE, POSTS MAY NOT BE IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER**
-BehindBlueI's
And if by Heritage you mean glorifying treasonous bastards who fought to keep the ancestors of many Virginia citizens in chattel slavery... what ever could be wrong or problematic with that? I mean what next, Connecticut removes the memorials to Benedict Arnold? Oh, the depravity of these modern times...Originally Posted by Old Virginia
Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 06-09-2020 at 07:24 PM.
500 thousand men from both sides, died in the Civil War. If BLM think that all of them died over slaves then that would be a mark of insanity. I mean totally insane. It would mean a totally ignorant or stupid understanding of the Reason why the North and South went to war. What gall for them to believe such utter crap. The two different societies of the Industrial North vs Agriculture South were vast. Got news for Ya , slavery was not just contained to the South. The South was fed up with the lack of support in both house's of the Congress and Senate. High tarriffs on Exports, etc etc. Lincoln threatened War because of Succession from the Union LOL NOT SLAVES.
Look at most Civil war photo's and any fool can see that many Confederate soldiers did not even have shoes much less a slave. The cost of one field hand slave in today's money would be around $12-20,000. The major Plantations owned slaves, roughly 5% of the population. The Confederate Army was composed of boys and men from all across Virginia from Shenandoah to Tidewater from small farms. These men fought for their Country against a invasion from the North.
Look at how Blacks seem to love Lincoln. The great Emacipator they call him. What BS! Lincoln only freed the Slaves from the South NOT the North or bordering states. He did this not for love of the slave but hurt any economic and phycological hurt to the south. The fact is, if the war had started two years later, slavery would not even have been a issue at all, due to the fact that Cotton would no longer be KING and slaves were in fact released anyway as the South Could not afford them. Most slaves headed to New York to join the industrial economy.
Funny how in NY had a major Protest and burning due to the fact that Many of the Immigrants hated the Blacks for taking away jobs. The Northern Army did not fight and die because of love for slaves. They did if for money. Millions of Immigrants were coming from Europe especially Ireland due to the Potato Famine. The were conscripted right off the ships in NY and Poor. They joined the Northern Army for MONEY to support their families.
I could write pages about the reason for the Civil War. YES VIRGINA HAS A LOT OF HERITAGE FROM THE CIVIL WAR AND ANCESTORS THAT DIED FIGHT FOR THEIR HOMELAND!
But the real reason the BLM want to destroy the monuments and history is the same reason they want to take away the 2A of the US Constitution. POWER[B]
They know if they can strip the constitution, they can take away even more.
Do you realize that the US gives African Americans more money and and welfare than any other Country in the whole world? Ask yourself this. If any terrorist group like Alqueida etc came to our country, started burning down business's, advocating killing police etc, what would America do? What would you do?
Last edited by Old Virginia; 06-07-2020 at 03:45 AM.
I think it has been pretty well established that the US Civil War was fundamentally about slavery. It is ironic that most (80%, I think) of the actual soldiers fighting for the south were too poor to own slaves.
Maybe it is time to remove the statues of confederate leaders. Statues are usually erected to honor someone we consider to be good. Lee was objectively a good general, but he fought to preserve slavery, which we all agree was very wrong. So should we really have statues for people who wanted to perpetuate slavery? Note - removing a statue is not erasing history.
One could make the comparison to postwar Germany putting up statues of Rommel, Von Manstein, and Guderian, or Japan making statues of Yamamoto and Tojo.
Heritage is a good thing, but sometimes, you must admit your ancestors were fighting for a bad cause.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
Like I said, it is insanity to think 500 thousand men died to because of Slavery and obvious a serious lack of knowledge about the Civil War which is sad.
And to compare Virginians to Germany is repulsive. Especially for Civil war Generals. LEE NEVER FOUGHT to preserve Slavery. Ironically it was Lincoln HIMSELF that wanted LEE to head the UNION ARMY!
LEE turned him down and said he could not go against his family, friends or the State of Virginia which was his homeland. HE NEVER ONCE SAID HE WOULD NOT BECAUSE HE LOVED SLAVERY. What nonsense.
It really appears so many Americans were asleep during American History classes. There are many great books available today that go into great detail about the causes of the Civil war from before the beginning to the battles the people and the slaves. How about doing some actual learning instead of just listening to CNN.
For instance after the Civil War LeeIn August of 1865,r, Lee was invited to serve as president of Washington College (now Washington and Lee University), where he and his family are buried. Since his death at age 63 on October 12, 1870, following a stroke, he has retained a place of distinction in most Southern states. He did not get tired for crimes like the German Nazi's at Nuremberg for God sake.
Last edited by Old Virginia; 06-07-2020 at 08:04 AM.
Lincoln wanted Lee on his side because he recognized that Lee was a good military leader. Lee chose the south because of his family ties. It's not an uncommon situation in history. There have been other military leaders that did not believe in the cause or their leader, but they fought for their country.
But Lee chose the south, and the south was fighting for slavery. Therefore Lee fought to preserve slavery. Lee's personal views on slavery are generally considered to be ambiguous. His overriding concern when he chose the south was that it was his homeland. But, there is no denying that he fought on the side that wanted to preserve slavery.
I'm not saying Lee was a bad person. I'm just saying that we should not honor the people that fought to preserve slavery.
You presume to know a lot about me and feel the need to resort to personal attacks to win your argument.
So what?
This is for several reasons:
- After the south surrendered, Lincoln wanted to heal the country, and he allowed Confederate soldiers to simply go home and rebuild their lives.
- Lee didn't commit any war crimes. There are plenty of German officers and soldiers who were not tried for war crimes at Nuremberg. Simply fighting for the losing side doesn't mean that a person committed a war crime.
Bro, society has moved on from the Lost Cause South. It was coopted by the Klan and even Virginia is moving beyond that.
Nor does it mean that they were motivated by the ideals that the winners chose to record in history and teach to subsequent generations as the cause for the war.
You can’t very well win a war and then go write in the books “we kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing, and getting in their shit, and expanding our power over them, and interfering in the issues in new prospective states so that our party could stay in power, all because we didn’t want to lose their contributions to the economy so we went down there and shot those motherfuckers after they got uppity and we provoked them into shooting at us first”.
Wouldn’t be the first time in history that someone wanted a war for a different reason than stated (WMDs, anyone?).
Southerners, at least the ones that did the actual fighting and dying, were fighting against invaders (in their minds) nothing more.
You may choose to believe that the Southern powers that be (politicians and rich folks, I suppose) provoked the war and resisted the invaders so that they could retain their slaves and their social status (I personally don’t, but neither you nor I were there), but it just doesn’t pass the smell test to think that the rural redneck farm kid went off to fight and die (in his mind) so that the rich guy could keep his “free” labor force.
History shows us that wars are really never fought for the ideological excuses given, but are all about expanding power and wealth, or retaining it, or resisting someone else’s.
Yep, let history speak for itself. For instance:
George Henry Thomas, Virginian, Major General, US Army, The Rock of Chickamauga:
“[T]he greatest efforts made by the defeated insurgents since the close of the war have been to promulgate the idea that the cause of liberty, justice, humanity, equality, and all the calendar of the virtues of freedom, suffered violence and wrong when the effort for southern independence failed. This is, of course, intended as a species of political cant, whereby the crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand in hand with the defenders of the government, thus wiping out with their own hands their own stains; a species of self-forgiveness amazing in its effrontery, when it is considered that life and property—justly forfeited by the laws of the country, of war, and of nations, through the magnanimity of the government and people—was not exacted from them. “
A lot of soldiers in the ACW fought in the war against Mexico. So what? That doesn't change the fact that when it came time to decide which side to fight on, Lee chose the side that was trying to preserve slavery.
Actually, you do hear about Washington and his slaves, along with Thomas Jefferson. Visit Colonial Williamsburg or Mount Vernon, and they most certainly do discuss the fact that Washington had slaves, and maybe even a slave for a lover. In the 1990s, there was a lot of discussion and national news about if Thomas Jefferson had also had a slave for a lover. My neighbor is a historian and was conducting research into this. If you go to Monticello, they will most certainly discuss Jefferson and slavery. If you go to Gunston Hall, you will hear about George Mason and his slaves.
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