US Army open to considering removal of Confederate leaders' names from bases

[ccmdfd]

Yes it's full of maybe's and could's


https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/polit...ses/index.html

CNN)US Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper are said to be open to holding a "bipartisan conversation" about renaming nearly a dozen major bases and installations that bear the names of Confederate military commanders, according to an Army official.

The official said that though McCarthy believes he has the potential authority to unilaterally rename the installations, there would need to be consultation with the White House, Congress and state and local governments.
In a statement Monday, the Army confirmed that McCarthy and Esper are "open to a bipartisan discussion on the topic" but added that "each Army installation is named for a soldier who holds a significant place in our military history."

"Accordingly, the historic names represent individuals, not causes or ideologies," the statement said.
Army installations named after Confederate leaders include Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Fort Hood in Texas and Fort A.P. Hill in Virginia.
The news come as the country continues to see widespread protests surrounding the death of George Floyd, a black man who was killed last month in police custody in Minneapolis.
Protesters have demanded justice for Floyd and have sought to draw attention to decades of police brutality toward black Americans as a result of what they say is institutionalized racism in law enforcement agencies.

As a result, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam announced earlier this month plans to remove a statue honoring Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from Richmond's historic Monument Avenue.
And on Friday, the US Marine Corps announced it had ordered the removal of all public displays of the Confederate flag from Marine installations.
That includes eliminating any depictions of the flag from individual offices and storage spaces to naval vessels and government vehicles.
"The Marine Corps shall remove the Confederate battle flag from all installation public spaces and work areas in order to support our core values, ensure unit cohesion and security, and preserve good order and discipline," the order said.

The flag of the Confederacy, its symbols and the statues commemorating Confederate leaders have long divided the country. Critics call the flag a symbol that represents the war to uphold slavery, while supporters call it a sign of Southern pride and heritage.
The symbols have increasingly become a rallying call for white supremacists.
Still, Army bases across the country have continued to bear the names of Confederate military commanders even amid intense external pressure to rename them.
In 2015, the Pentagon declared that it was up to the individual military services to name their bases and said that is not likely to change following a shooting in a Charleston, South Carolina, church that left nine African-Americans dead.

Army Brig. Gen. Malcolm B. Frost said at the time that the naming of these bases "occurred in the spirit of reconciliation, not division."
This story and its headline have been updated with additional reporting on Monday evening

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm actually conflicted on this, but probably not for the reasons anybody cares about. I understand the argument of heritage and continuity. The "my granddaddy served at Ft. Knox and today so do I" sort of thing. That said and realizing I have no stake, I'd like to see some more modern soldiers honored with a similar legacy. Just off the top of my head, Ft. Tillman or Chapman Airfield would be a hell of a lot more meaningful to a lot of veterans today then generals from either side of the civil war.

[Yung]

https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=38901&cpage=2

Yeah, well, apart from the discussion we could have about the politics that led to the Civil War, we could talk about the things they should be talking about at a place called “The War College” namely “war”. Lee and Jackson knew a little bit about war and rewrote the book on maneuver and the use of artillery, the lessons they taught us are still taught today. Taking down their portraits and tearing down their statues, we might as well erase them from the books, too.

I guess they could replace the pictures and statues of Jackson and Lee with some Union generals like George MacClellan who only provides lessons in regards to what not to do when it comes to modern warfare.

[Wise_A]

This is the part where I sort've shake my head, because nobody knows their fucking history. Fun stuff:

(1) All those glorious Union generals that fought for Truth and Beauty and Equality were also damn good at marching my people into meatgrinders, because hell, they were only Irish, not native-born.
(2) They're called the New York City Draft Riots because they happened in New York City, not Richmond. Those were the ones where they burned down the Colored Orphan Asylum, and murdered at least 11 blacks, hanging them from lamp posts and trees, and cutting off various body parts.

And guess who made up the majority of rioters from #2? That's right! Irish working class! My people were both victims, and utter dicks! Almost like they were real people with their own agency, equally-capable of both heroism and barbarism!

History is not about scrutinizing rights and wrongs. It's about recognizing the contributions made by ordinary individuals no different than you or I, as a reminder of all the parts of our past, and the greatness we should aspire to, mistakes we shouldn't make again, and the cost of the present we all enjoy.

PS--Protesters vandalized a memorial to the 54th Massachusetts Regiment in Boston last week. You may remember the 54th from the movie Glory.

[trailrunner]

Yeah, well, apart from the discussion we could have about the politics that led to the Civil War, we could talk about the things they should be talking about at a place called “The War College” namely “war”. Lee and Jackson knew a little bit about war and rewrote the book on maneuver and the use of artillery, the lessons they taught us are still taught today. Taking down their portraits and tearing down their statues, we might as well erase them from the books, too.

I guess they could replace the pictures and statues of Jackson and Lee with some Union generals like George MacClellan who only provides lessons in regards to what not to do when it comes to modern warfare.

Nobody is talking about erasing history, or pretending that those leaders didn't exist, or not taking at a critical look at what those leaders did on the battlefield.

The proposal is to rename bases.

[trailrunner]

This is the part where I sort've shake my head, because nobody knows their fucking history. Fun stuff:

(1) All those glorious Union generals that fought for Truth and Beauty and Equality were also damn good at marching my people into meatgrinders, because hell, they were only Irish, not native-born.
(2) They're called the New York City Draft Riots because they happened in New York City, not Richmond. Those were the ones where they burned down the Colored Orphan Asylum, and murdered at least 11 blacks, hanging them from lamp posts and trees, and cutting off various body parts.

And guess who made up the majority of rioters from #2? That's right! Irish working class! My people were both victims, and utter dicks! Almost like they were real people with their own agency, equally-capable of both heroism and barbarism!

History is not about scrutinizing rights and wrongs. It's about recognizing the contributions made by ordinary individuals no different than you or I, as a reminder of all the parts of our past, and the greatness we should aspire to, mistakes we shouldn't make again, and the cost of the present we all enjoy.

I'm not sure what the Irish in the north have to do with naming military bases after confederate leaders. Again, nobody is talking about erasing the past: the discussion is about honoring confederate leaders, leaders who lead the cause to preserve slavery.

And for the record, there is a statue for the Irish at Gettysburg to recognize their contribution to that battle.

[JHC]

I'm actually conflicted on this, but probably not for the reasons anybody cares about. I understand the argument of heritage and continuity. The "my granddaddy served at Ft. Knox and today so do I" sort of thing. That said and realizing I have no stake, I'd like to see some more modern soldiers honored with a similar legacy. Just off the top of my head, Ft. Tillman or Chapman Airfield would be a hell of a lot more meaningful to a lot of veterans today then generals from either side of the civil war.

Agree on updating them. Been plenty of greater heroes and contributors since the current named group.

I used to buy in to the honoring heritage line of defense for other monuments until late in life learning that the vast majority were not erected shortly post Civil War but erected 1900's - 1920's as Jim Crow was implemented but continuing into the 1950's also. Suspicious timing.

[Zincwarrior]

I'm actually conflicted on this, but probably not for the reasons anybody cares about. I understand the argument of heritage and continuity. The "my granddaddy served at Ft. Knox and today so do I" sort of thing. That said and realizing I have no stake, I'd like to see some more modern soldiers honored with a similar legacy. Just off the top of my head, Ft. Tillman or Chapman Airfield would be a hell of a lot more meaningful to a lot of veterans today then generals from either side of the civil war.

BB has the way of it. I would also posit Fort Hood could be be renamed Fort Vader. Just putting that out there...

[Xhado]

or Chapman Airfield would be a hell of a lot more meaningful to a lot of veterans today then generals from either side of the civil war.

Joint Base San Antonio's Madina Annex was just renamed Chapman Annex.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...pient-chapman/

[Trooper224]

You shouldn't name things after losers and traitors.