Here’s some photos and discussion in another thread of the smaller “donut o death” and the larger circle dot reticle further down that @mrozowjj posted back in December for a comparison.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post964325
Here’s some photos and discussion in another thread of the smaller “donut o death” and the larger circle dot reticle further down that @mrozowjj posted back in December for a comparison.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l=1#post964325
im strong, i can run faster than train
The 8 MOA ring aka donut of death I like because with my eyes the smaller dots look like stars or commas where the ring looks like a nice crisp donut. I can treat it like a dot and for the most part that's exactly what I do. I have it on a few PCCs and in that case it's really beneficial because if you are aiming at something far away that's smaller than the ring you can kind of just center it in the ring. What I'm finding though is that for the most part most things you aim at are still larger than the 8 MOA outer diameter of the ring even at 100 yards (assuming you are aiming at USPSA/IDPA/ human sized targets so it's really just a "dot."
The concept of using just the 32 MOA circle that @GJM is talking about it super interesting as like he said even with the 8 MOA ring I still find myself trying to line it up perfectly which is probably because I'm new to pistol dots and it's probably slowing me down. For a pistol 32 MOA is still smaller than a USPSA/IDAP/ human sized target at 25 yards; 32 MOA = about 8 inches at 25 yards, USPSA/IDPA targets are 18 inches, the down zero on an IDPA target is about 8" so at any reasonable distance the ring is going to be smaller in appearance than the down zero on an IDPA target. I think there's a rule in IDPA actually about how the bulk of the targets in the match have to be inside of 15 yards and at that distance the ring would appear to cover just under 5" on a IDPA target.
I was leaning very heavily towards the 6 MOA dot Holosun 407K down the road on a carry gun but this makes me want to try the 507K instead and just use the ring.
I think the argument against the 32 MOA ring only as a sighting system is the results you usually see shooting a larger aperture sight over any kind of distance. Try to zero an AR with the large aperture or try to shoot a man-size target with any precision at 100 yards with one and you'll likely find that your ability to shoot precisely falls apart. The eye wants to center the front sight in the circle and does a pretty good job, but doesn't do as well as we'd like.
The 8 MOA circle, in theory, covers only 2" at 25 yards. An average width front sight is still nearly TWICE the width in MOA. A 32 MOA circle, in theory, covers 8" at 25 yards, or about twice the space of an average iron sight. Are you willing to risk the loss of precision with a circle that big? Even if the net effect of "being able to center the target in the circle" is more precise than a 32 MOA front iron sight, does that make it worth it?
I don't think shooting defensively at 25, 30, 40, 50, etc yards is such an outlandish possibilty that I would CHOOSE a reticle that large.
Now he 8 MOA circle, particularly for people with significant astigmatism, THAT is interesting.
Good read.
I have the 507c on a Krink clone and find it absolutely perfect for the application. A while back, I took GJMs advice and set up a USP45 for field use. I ended up putting a 6moa microdot on it, and quite honestly have been struggling with it. It is my first adventure into pistol application for a red dot and I find myself both slow and struggling to become comfortable with the skillset. I have an astigmatism that has varied over time (it seems) and while red dots can be hit and miss on appearance for me, the circle on the 507c is crisp and without distortion.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
Is there any compelling reason to choose the V2 over the V1? The battery tray is a selling point to me, but if the battery life is 5-ish years I dont' know how big a decision point I should make that. Or to phrase it a different way, if one could score a $75-$100 savings on a V1 is there any reason not to?
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
I think the 5ish years battery life thing is a bit of a myth. Looks good on a spec sheet, but in practice you'll want the dot higher than the setting which gives you 50K hours -- kind of like how my "1.5 years on Setting 6" ACRO is really a 30-day pre-emptive battery change for me because I run it at 7 at night (allegedly 6 months) and 8-9 during the day (~3-4 weeks depending on the setting).
In practice, with a 507C or RMR, I would personally change the battery every six months or so as a preventative measure. If using a Gen 1 Holosun, I would recommend a) investing in an inch/pound torque wrench such as a Wheeler FAT Wrench and b) treating the mounting screws as consumables if removing the optic and c) buying some well-made torx/torx plus screws to mount the optic to the gun and d) not exceeding the manufacturer's suggested torque specs. I am far more comfortable having an optic where the battery can be changed without removing and remounting, and for that reason alone I would go with a V2 Holosun.
If price is a concern, I wouldn't shy away from a 407C V2 or 407CO V2 (8MOA circle) if you do not anticipate using the 32MOA circle reticle that seems to be the hotness right now. I personally think the 8MOA circle is a very interesting reticle and would be more comfortable with that than the 32MOA circle after using both -- both are big enough to do well up close, but the 8MOA is better at distance for me (I have a harder time trusting the centering of the target in the big circle at extended ranges). Given your profession, I do think 25 yard precision shots ought to be a consideration.
While I agree that many people struggle with precision (and it seems a fifty proposition) with a ghost ring, I disagree with that applying to the large Holosun circle. The ghost ring requires to center a front sight in the large aperture and the Holosun does not. The Holosun is like the “circle of death” on an AUG, which allows good precision. I have shot numerous groups at 25 with just the large Holosun circle and got similar or even better results than with a dot. I would use that for competition if the whole display was just larger. On my PCC, I use just the large circle with the bigger 512.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Price is always a concern, but it's because I'm a cheap bastard and like a deal. If I can get the same thing for less, I want to, and just saw some V1s NIB on sale on the secondary market so figured I'd check. I don't mind springing for the V2 if it's worth it to do so and GJM is selling me on the utility of the larger dot for what is essentially a Fisher-Price My First Red Dot Pistol for me.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.