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Thread: VP9 is a German Matryoshka doll

  1. #1
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    VP9 is a German Matryoshka doll

    I detail stripped one of my VP9's to replace the trigger bar today (this VP9 has always had a hiccup in the trigger press, now gone, must have been an out of spec trigger bar).
    Damn thing is typical German over-engineering, why use one part when you can use three to do the same thing.
    Just like a Matryoshka doll, you have a pin inside a spring inside another pin and spring.
    And I do wish H&K would come up with a new trigger return spring design, their legacy setup of a tensioned torsion spring held in place by the slide stop/trigger axle is and always has been a pain in the ass to install.
    That is all.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  2. #2
    I've never been impressed with anything German engineering, from airplanes, to vehicles, to guns.

    High quality complex mediocrity.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2CattleCo View Post
    High quality complex mediocrity.
    Kind of like 1911's...

    Glock is the gold standard when it comes to firearms engineering, which is weird coming out of Austria.
    Austrian designs are often the worst mashup of German complexity and Italian half-assery.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  4. #4
    Vending Machine Operator
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    I had a VP9, shot really well with it and generally liked it. The day I decided to sell it, I had field stripped both it and my Glock 19 Gen 4 after spending a lot of the day dry firing both. I noted, as you did, what appeared to be notably higher complexity in the VP9, and yet I found the Glock 19's trigger much more predictable and with a slightly heavier and in my opinion safer trigger weight and pull length. Not to mention the added safety of a partially-tensioned striker system.

    My VP9 never failed me. It shot well over about 1,000 rounds and I liked it. But when I asked myself what it offered me over what appeared to be a much simpler and marginally safer design, I couldn't offer anything up. Especially in the mountain west where the wind blows hard and tiny particles like to get into things.

    I do miss the little "rabbit ears" on the rear serrations. I liked those a lot.
    State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan

  5. #5
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Glock is the gold standard when it comes to firearms engineering, which is weird coming out of Austria.
    Austrian designs are often the worst mashup of German complexity and Italian half-assery.
    G-wagens are built in Austria.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter MasterBlaster's Avatar
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    So true. The Glock is built from about 30 parts. The VP9 requires about 60!

  7. #7
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    I agree than HK tends to design using the German method of piling worst-case parameters on top of worst-case parameters ad infinitum and creating torture tests, adding parts to deal with scenarios that may happen about 3.4 times per million pieces and can never happen together, making the firearms more complex, harder to service, and adding unusual failure modes like the right side slide release being so loose it rattles even in the holster. Glock's design philosophy seems to be to use a small number of parts and making common parts even when it makes no sense, say having 9x19 and .40 use the same recoil spring assembly. HK's current expertise seems to be magazine design and materials selection, not firearms design. The P30/VP9 magazine appears to be durable and bomb proof, with springs not used outside of design parameters. I am still trying to wear out a single P30 magazine (as opposed to abuse).

    On the other hand, no way HK is going to release a pistol that will go bang if dropped.

  8. #8
    Member
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    SO....in summary, HK violates the K.I.S.S. principal to a ridiculous extent. HUH. Kinda like BMV.

    What is funny about this is that my Wife has both a VP9 and owned a MINI Cooper (BMV Mfg) and likes to bad mouth "Gaston's Gallery" in my safe.

    I have said, in reference to the Mini and is evidently applicable to the VP9 as well, buy German if you want to become an enthusiast and constantly tinker!

  9. #9
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    My VP40 and P30L are among, if not in reality the most accurate EDC/duty pistols in my possession. I'll field-strip, perhaps detail disassemble the slide; but that's it. Anything else, it goes back to HK, or to an HK-certified armorer/gunsmith.

    That means, as LockedBreech discussed, if I'm in an environment where there's a chance I'll need to perform a detailed disassemble/re-assembly, especially out in the field, it's gonna be a Glock kinda day.

    Best, Jon

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
    I have said, in reference to the Mini and is evidently applicable to the VP9 as well, buy German if you want to become an enthusiast and constantly tinker!
    Perhaps enthusiast, but maybe not tinkerer.

    I suspect there is a whole lot more tinkering going on with Glock's simply because you can. I think most folks are more like JonInWa where they are less likely to fiddle with the insides of their HK's.
    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    My VP40 and P30L are among, if not in reality the most accurate EDC/duty pistols in my possession. I'll field-strip, perhaps detail disassemble the slide; but that's it. Anything else, it goes back to HK, or to an HK-certified armorer/gunsmith.

    That means, as LockedBreech discussed, if I'm in an environment where there's a chance I'll need to perform a detailed disassemble/re-assembly, especially out in the field, it's gonna be a Glock kinda day.

    Best, Jon

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