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Thread: Help Newb to Defend Home against the Horde

  1. #41
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    I sometimes think "tacti-cool" gets to those of us in the gun community and we think nothing will do but being armed like a member of a ranger battalion, or SWAT team member.

    For a more low profile, and possibly easier to acquire approach, consider a 357 Magnum revolver and a lever action rifle chambererd in the same cartridge. You can even find 7 & 8 shot revolvers if you really think more is better. 357 lever action rifles based on the '92 Winchester or the '94 Marlin are compact, hold 10 rounds in carbine form and perform above their pay grade with full power Magnum ammunition. The rifle length versions of these hold even more and yet are still fairly compact to handle.

    And don't over look the old standby, the 30-30 Winchester (Model 94 Winchester - 336 Marlin). It is the ballistic duplicate of the 7.62X39 and just an ol' deer rifle to those who get twisted in knots at the idea of law abiding citizens owning an assault rifle (AR). In the shotgun category a double barrel might be easier to find than a pump shotgun (think of the tens of thousands of LA residents who will be trying to buy them). A double will clear most any hallway and can be reloaded, with practice, before the smoke clears and their ears stop ringing so bad.

    And less anyone scoff at these suggestions: revolvers; lever actions; and double barrels have been protecting and defending people, homes, farms and ranches for decades. You won't look like someone's tactical ninja operator, but with a little training and practice you won't be anyone to mess with either.

    My $.02 worth. YMMV,
    Dave
    The current Winchester 1873 carbines in 357 hold 10 rds as issued. That seemed odd since the originals held 12 rds of 44-40. Observation of the magazine spring showed it stacked solid at 10 rds, but had far more spring stack than a 94 carbine. Swapping the spring to the 94 carbine version, it held 11 1/2. 12 would actually fit, but the lifter was jammed tight. Clipping 7 coils, it then easily accepted and cycled with 12 rds of 357.

    The 30-30 is a bit above 7.62x39 ballistics but doesnt hold up as well at distance due to bullet shape. 125 gr 30-30 handloads show around 2650 fps in the manuals if I recall correctly. 150s seem to be in the 125 gr 7.62x39 velocity range. Good, widely available reliably expanding loads for the 30-30 is a point in its favor ammo wise. Ive tended towards the 150 gr loads recently, partly for any reduction of recoil possible with a bum shoulder and partly because they tend to run a couple hundred feet faster than the 170s and should give best possible expansion on game etc up to large deer size. I always used 170s, the common comments seemed to be along the lines of "the 150s usually penetrate all the way through deer and seem to put deer down faster, but use the 170s because of some vague unstated reason related to just in case" (probably in reference to oddly angled shots, but its never been clearly stated that I recall). If the 150s expand faster and more reliably, whats the advantage of the 170s in the game size range of deer? Ive had a couple WTF moments shooting deer with Speer 170s. They didnt show much damage on after action investigation and took several decent hits to get a doe deer to stay down. Same general hits with a 30-06 was more like what one expects. Will have to see how the 150s seem to work if/when I get to hunt again. The 130 gr Speers have a good reputation in deer also.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  2. #42
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    You're no doubt right about the magazine capacity of the current version of the 1873. The one I owned was an original with a 28" barrel. I think the magazine on that held 15 rounds or there abouts. I recommended the 92 Win and 94 Marlin because they are much shorter actions, resulting in a more compact carbine. And, the actions are much stouter than the toggle link '73.

    Doubt if the OP can find many deer in LA so any 30 WCF (30-30 for you younger guys) in the same ballistic range as the 7.62x39 would be adequate to his purpose. That 130g Speer sounds like a dandy. (smile)

    Dave

  3. #43
    Thank you to the several posters recommending ITTS. They've had incredible demand for the beginner's course from folks who live in my area. ITTS tried to schedule in more courses and there was already a waitlist for them. I got off the waitlist today and now I'm registered.

    We also found a new single family home. We lose our 2nd fl entrance and the security gates of our current home. I'm in the most unusual situation right now where the wife wants me to hurry up and buy whatever gun (she was anti-gun for the longest time). I'm going to complete the ITTS course first and then off to the gun shop I go. The instructors suggested I start with the beginner's handgun course first, so my 1st purchase will be a handgun. The next shotgun basics course is in Aug and I couldn't wait that long. If I get a shotgun as per many of your suggestions, it'll be in addition to the handgun.

    Still not sure which model to get, so I'm still researching that.

  4. #44
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Best of luck with all that and truly hope you never need them.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post
    Thank you to the several posters recommending ITTS. They've had incredible demand for the beginner's course from folks who live in my area. ITTS tried to schedule in more courses and there was already a waitlist for them. I got off the waitlist today and now I'm registered.

    We also found a new single family home. We lose our 2nd fl entrance and the security gates of our current home. I'm in the most unusual situation right now where the wife wants me to hurry up and buy whatever gun (she was anti-gun for the longest time). I'm going to complete the ITTS course first and then off to the gun shop I go. The instructors suggested I start with the beginner's handgun course first, so my 1st purchase will be a handgun. The next shotgun basics course is in Aug and I couldn't wait that long. If I get a shotgun as per many of your suggestions, it'll be in addition to the handgun.

    Still not sure which model to get, so I'm still researching that.
    Congrats on the new home. And for getting into ITTS. That school has the deepest pool of experience I've seen at any forearms training institution. Scotty is a character and sometimes puts a folks on their heels with his 4 letter vocabulary, but he's an certified use of force instructor and the veteran of many LAPD investigations. If you buy a revolver, they have a 1 day revolver class coming up.

    Keep us posted.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post
    Thank you to the several posters recommending ITTS. They've had incredible demand for the beginner's course from folks who live in my area. ITTS tried to schedule in more courses and there was already a waitlist for them. I got off the waitlist today and now I'm registered.

    We also found a new single family home. We lose our 2nd fl entrance and the security gates of our current home. I'm in the most unusual situation right now where the wife wants me to hurry up and buy whatever gun (she was anti-gun for the longest time). I'm going to complete the ITTS course first and then off to the gun shop I go. The instructors suggested I start with the beginner's handgun course first, so my 1st purchase will be a handgun. The next shotgun basics course is in Aug and I couldn't wait that long. If I get a shotgun as per many of your suggestions, it'll be in addition to the handgun.

    Still not sure which model to get, so I'm still researching that.
    You may get some recommendations and even some experience in your classes. If not, I will recommend:

    Get something high quality, but basic: a G19/G17, M&P 9mm compact or full size, or a DA revolver, such as a S&W 10, 13, 15, 19, 586 or the stainless equivalents 64, 65, 66, 67, or 686, or a Ruger SP101 or GP100.

    Any of these will serve you well. There may be reasons to eventually add or trade for something else, but it will be for reasons of preference rather than that whatever you get from that short list won’t do the job.
    When you have no gun and need one, any gun beats what you have. Getting a high quality, basic gun and learning dedicating time and ammunition to learning to use it well is the way to success.

  7. #47
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    jayc,

    Consider talking your wife into going to the basic handgun course too. You can't be with her 24/7. A time could arise when she needs to protect herself.

    Something to think about,
    Dave

  8. #48
    Site Supporter TDA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
    jayc,

    Consider talking your wife into going to the basic handgun course too. You can't be with her 24/7. A time could arise when she needs to protect herself.

    Something to think about,
    Dave
    Indeed. Self protection, like marriage, is a team sport and at a minimum you both should know the basics And be able to cover for one another in an emergency.

  9. #49
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    If possible, I like the current direction of the thread. One Glock19/2 educated owners beats most alternatives this side of multiple G19s/multiple educated owners.

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