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Thread: Help Newb to Defend Home against the Horde

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Have a bug out plan and pre-decide the cues that would cause you to evacuate. Stick to those cues. I would suggest that you have bags packed, gas tank filled, and a few places to go when the action ramps up. Have a few routes to get to each location in case any particular route gets blocked. Have your home owner's/renter's insurance figured out and important/expensive items photographed and itemized. Treat it like an earthquake or wildfire and be ready to bug out early...
    ...and go where? Los Angeles is not the place to be driving when hordes of angry rioters are roaming the streets. I do agree and must stress- if you're gonna bug out, bug out before anything gets started. Once something does start, it spreads quick and the last place you wanna be during a riot is out on the street- whether on foot or in your car. Those guys have flipping cars down pat.

    I lived near El Segundo & Normandy the Rodney King riots broke out. Things went from zero to violent in minutes. I thought about packing up my family and heading for Simi Valley where my folks lived at the time, but that would have been a bad idea, even as familiar as I was with all the routes I could take to get there. It would have taken only a small crowd to block my vehicle, smash the windows and flip it over.

    I took our old full sized Chevy station wagon to evacuate a family my now ex-wife was friends with to stay with us. They were on welfare and lived in a worse neighborhood than we did at the time. The distance wasn't far, but I saw some frightening sights during that trip. It was foolish and risky and only by the grace of God did nothing happen to me.

    Staying in our home was the safest choice. Our neighbors kept the rioters out of our neighborhood and away from my family. I found out later several looters wanted to run us out (we were the only white family) but we'd made friends with some good people who stopped them.

    If we had tried to bug out, we would have had to drive several miles to get out of the area with no idea how to avoid the violence. We could have bugged out early, but when I left for work that morning, there was no indication things were going to turn violent. I had no idea what was going on until I stopped at my favorite gunshop in Hawaiian Gardens and the owner asked me why I was at his shop instead of home protecting my family. The 91 freeway was its usual Traffic Hell and I don't know how I didn't get into a wreck driving on the right shoulder at 100 mph to get to my family.

    Let's say you do bug out early. Where is there to go that's safe? During the Rodney King Riots, the violence rolled as far north as Hollywood but stopped short of the rich, heavily patrolled neighborhoods nestled in the Santa Monica Mountains. This time, it's different. I've seen posts that there's been talk among the looters that they should go pillage Simi Valley because it's a white community and responsible for not convicting the cops that beat Rodney King.

    It's safer to stay home, network with your neighbors and do what you can to make your neighborhood not worth coming to.

    jayc, check out calguns.net for legal guidance to California's tangled morass of gun ownership. I haven't lived in California for past 20 years, but during a recent visit, I went to Ammo Brothers, Turners Outdoorsman and Martin B. Retting's. That will give you a couple places to start.

    Normally, I would not suggest anyone build an AR for self defense, but if I were weaponless in California, I would buy this lower- https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-stealth-lower.html

    This build kit- https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...165447811.html

    and a Kali Key- https://kalikey.com/product/ar15-kali-key-bcg/

    The Kali Key converts the AR into a manually operated rifle. Not quite as fast as a semi-auto, but manually operated rifles are not as restricted as self loaders. The beauty of the Kali Key is that it allows the AR to be quickly converted back to semi-auto if you travel to another state.

    Sign up and check in with the folks at calguns.net. The depth and breadth of knowledge about gun ownership in California is unmatched anywhere on the internet.
    We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post
    Wow, some fantastic advice already here. Thank you all.

    To address some of your questions:

    Budget: Right now, it's unclear b/c I'm unfamiliar with what I need. In general, my purchasing philosophy is to buy the product that brings me the most bang for my buck. I rarely spend to get the absolute best, but we do splurge on things we really value. In this case, if folks here agree that the best firearm for my situation costs $$$$, then I'll likely buy it. I've never seen my wife's face that terrified and I don't want ever want to see that again.

    Location: LA county

    Housing: We're moving out of our apartment at the end of the month for unrelated reasons. Our next place will be a rental, still in LA county but in a different, less targeted town. Once we buy our own place, I'm fully implementing all your suggestions on securing our home. I especially like the zombie bar.

    Pepper spray: Is this better than bear spray? I've done a lot of backpacking in bear country so I'm familiar with bear spray, although I've never used one on a bear.

    Thank you for the shotgun suggestions. My hesitation with them is the time to reload. I may have seen a shotgun that takes magazines in a movie, but not sure if they really exist, especially in CA. What are your thoughts here?

    My wife was gifted a wooden kendo sword and she has pepper spray, so those are our main weapons for now.

    We have a heavy desk next to our front door. We used it to barricade the door.

    We've identified one location and one cue to bug out of LA. We'll continue to build on that. If nothing happens, at least we have a plan in our back pocket.

    For those who are familiar with CA gun laws, is there any possibility to buy an AR-15?
    Bear spray/pepper spray: if you hike and so have a can of actual OC bear spray, that is typically a larger can of more potent OC pepper spray then the pocket/keychain ones. If it’s from a reputable brand and isn’t expired, you should be good to go, but get a couple of pocket size ones from POM or Sabre Red.

    Spray cones vary in size, and how far they reach. Wind disrupts them, and can blow the spray back on you. Just be aware of that if you have to deploy them.

  3. #23
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post

    Housing: We're moving out of our apartment at the end of the month for unrelated reasons. Our next place will be a rental, still in LA county but in a different, less targeted town. Once we buy our own place, I'm fully implementing all your suggestions on securing our home. I especially like the zombie bar.
    Part of what I was getting at, you can have the cross bar hardware on hand and not installed if youre in a rental. If have your screw gun and parts ready, they can be installed in 5 minutes or less if you understand how and where to shoot the screws. A stud sensor will show where the double studs by the doorway begin and where there will be solid backing for the cross bar screws. Become familiar with the stud locations and you wont need the sensor when the moment comes to install the crossbar brackets. The longer screws in the latch and hinges are basically unnoticeable and shouldnt cause any problems with a landlord, they also can be switched back if/when you move and want to make it look completely identical to when you moved in. The color of the screw heads would be the only thing anyone would notice. You could color them with paint or nail polish to match the original hardware to be completely stealthy.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post
    Pepper spray: Is this better than bear spray? I've done a lot of backpacking in bear country so I'm familiar with bear spray, although I've never used one on a bear.
    Used to be bear OC was more refined/potent than personal defense OC. So if you have bear spray, make sure someplace it says OC or oleoresincapsicum in the ingredients and feel free to use it.

    Outside vendors cant ship individual containers of more than 2.5 ounces to california residents.

    The Sabre Red website was too slow to load, these maybe your quickest option if you cant find any locally, they are 1.8 ounces, I'd get a couple:

    https://www.amazon.com/SABRE-RED-Pep...g-goods&sr=1-9

    The smaller personal units contain less than an ounce of OC, probably not sufficient for what you want. Sabre Red does sell a 2oz unit, unsure if it is an LE only product.

    Ideally you would want a large - think quart-size canister. Sabre Red sells a home defense unit, the one I saw advertisied was gel, maybe they have one in a streamer.

    Whatever you buy, get corresponding inert training units - same size, same dispersion pattern - I prefer streamer - same trigger/button mode.

    For the immediate future, if you cant find spray - get a couple of home fire extinguishers and baseball bats. You could also go to a hardware store get a section of three or four foot section of black pipe -handle it and get the size your hands grip best - get end caps for both ends and a bag of quikrete or playsand to fill the pipes if you desire. grip tape on one end and you have something more effective, IMO than a ball bat.

    Think about the dress of potential attackers if they have planned, they may be wearing shin guards, forearm guard, and MX or hockey chest protection, as well as face/eye protection. OC spray will not be as effective, or, in some cases, ineffective, against someone wearing a face shield, etc. Plan what you would do in that situation and others you could think of. You can do drills to react to these situations. PVC pipe with foam pipe around it can be used to practice strikes with the bat or pipes.

    Thinking it through, as you've already started to do, is a giant step forward to safety.

    Good luck.

  5. #25
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    Away, away, away, down.......
    Some random thoughts, not well organized.

    Do your apartments have a fire suppression system?

    If trouble is brewing make sure you and the wife are wearing cotton or other fire resistant clothing. Tech fabrics and exercise clothes are a no go here.

    Eye protection is good, make sure you have clear as well as sunglasses if something kicks off at night.

    An alternate plan other than fighting would be good to have if you decide you need to evacuate the building. Get some cheap hoodies and bandanas or something cover your face. Kick ‘em around in the dirt or a parking lot and put them away for use unwashed. Also have some stained or dirty work pants or jeans and shoes or boots. (This might not work for somebody with a handicap, but if your relatively fit these crowds are diverse enough that it shouldn’t be too hard).
    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 06-06-2020 at 01:45 PM.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post

    I live in the Los Angeles county area. I need help selecting some guns.

    .
    You will be lucky to find any rifles in the stores.

    Riflegear in Fountain Valley is a good place to check what they have on their website.

    So much info on Calguns about staying legal if you care to wade through it. Lots of silliness too.

    There is no carry, open carry, and show you weapon you will get hit with a brandishing charge.

    https://www.shouselaw.com/25850.html

    https://www.shouselaw.com/brandishing-weapon-pc417.html

    I have taken lots of training classes with a variety of featureless rifles (AR and AK) alongside LEO/military way back. Never felt hampered just annoyed my thumb couldn’t wrap around the grip... but you can make it work.

    The new Ruger PC 9 mm carbine would be my recommendation for a beginner. You can take to indoor ranges, compact, and no guessing whether it is legal since it has a traditional rifle stock. Plus you are good to go if you want to try competing PCC USPSA or similar which I also recommend.

    From there you can go rifle or shotgun...

    That is my two cents fwiw.

    Good luck!

  7. #27
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    Jul 2017
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    West
    Bug out: As others have noted, bug out can be hard at the best of times, and probably a Bad Idea when there's active civil disturbance. I once tried to drive out of L.A. on a Friday afternoon when the Grapevine (Interstate-5) was reduced to one lane. It was 6-8 hours of gridlock to get from LAX to get to the top of Grapevine. That was a wake up call how for me on how hard it would be to evacuate from Los Angeles in a crisis. Far better during a riot to sit tight with a bunch of friends and trusted neighbors in a defensible location.

    AR rifles. Yes, you can put together a featureless rifle that's very functional. But I try to steer first timers away from ARs in California. The manual of arms is not intutitive, and the California laws concerning ARs are a horrible maze that most folks find very confusing. Moreover, what's legal today might not be in a few months, just due to the constant stream of new laws.

    Calguns Forum: A good source of info on California gun laws, but a huge source of derp for anything else relating to equipment, technique, or use of force. For the later, I suggest the OP uses Pistol-Forum. The expertise and experience here constantly amazes me. (And to be clear, I'm not one of the folks with the expertise or experience, but I listen closely when they speak).

    Good luck and stay stay safe.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Depending on where you in LA County, ITTS (www.internationaltactical.com) is up north of Burbank. If you're more to the south-east, try Sentinel Defense (www.sendef.com) down at the Prado range complex. While not as well known, they bring significant L/E experience that translates. Both orgs can discuss legal issues though they aren't lawyers.

    Legal issues relating to self-defense are worth an early deep dive. As Suvorov mentioned for as bad as our gun laws are, we still have pretty decent self-defense laws. https://www.amazon.com/How-Own-Gun-S.../dp/0964286459 or https://www.amazon.com/California-Gu...dp/0988460270/ might be helpful until you can get to a decent CCW class for the legal aspects.

    Sounds like you are working on securing your residence or complex as best you can.

    A lever-action rifle or shotgun (pump or semi-auto) shouldn't cause issues. Reloading them will require some attention to dry practice.

  9. #29
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    Jan 2013
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    Hickory NC
    Plenty of good advise above. I just want to say "good for you" for taking charge of your own safety and well being!
    David

  10. #30
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Central PA
    Aside from all the good advice, please think about and advocate who you vote into office as that is the root cause of all your flaming hoop jumping woes. This situation should underline for you that good people should not be kept from the means to protect themselves and that you are your very own first responder.

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