Help Newb to Defend Home against the Horde

[luckyman]

What county do you live in? Santa Clara and Los Angeles counties no way are you getting a concealed carry permit; Orange County and many far northern or gold country counties; no problem. That might influence if you want a pistol or not.

Anyone else in the household that would be using the firearm? While ordinarily not ideal as it uses a less effective pistol cartridge, the Ruger pistol caliber carbine might be a good selection for smaller or generally recoil -averse new shooters.

Lever guns are great but training on them is likely to not be available.

Your budget will factor in here also; I personally would go for exactly the semi-auto shotguns already mentioned, but if your budget is tight there are other alternatives.

[scw2]

Wasp spray is not recommended. For OC ("pepper spray") you can search for threads here and members tend to like the POM or Sabre Red sprays and are readily available normally via Amazon. Avoid the gel option. If you've never used one, pick up some inert trainers as well. Here is a reputable expert who has a solid blog post on OC spray

I don't live in Cali so do not have helpful information on firearms specifically, but the recommendations of extending out your home security and hardening existing layers is a solid one, and something concrete you can do immediately while you're also working in parallel to securing a firearm for home defense.

[David S.]

Have a bug out plan and pre-decide the cues that would cause you to evacuate. Stick to those cues. I would suggest that you have bags packed, gas tank filled, and a few places to go when the action ramps up. Have a few routes to get to each location in case any particular route gets blocked. Have your home owner's/renter's insurance figured out and important/expensive items photographed and itemized. Treat it like an earthquake or wildfire and be ready to bug out early.

OC (pepper) Spray. I'd direct you to Sabre Red for larger units. POM Industries is good option for pocket units. Your context is probably best served by steam or gel, not cone (mist). Make sure you buy a reputable dealer. Try to get an inert unit for practice.

Wasp spray is problematic for several reasons. Ref: Chuck Haggard. ABC fire extinguisher is a better make-shift option.

Another direction to consider is trauma medicine. You're looking at a hundred dollars for a well equipped individual kit and a couple hundred dollars for a family kit. (again, buy good equipment from reputable sources, like Dark Angel Medical, North American Rescue, etc. Amazon/Ebay are apparently flooded with knock offs.). Lone Star Medics and Dark Angel Medical are highly recommended trainers. I'm sure they'd be happy to refer you to local trainers. I know LSM has recently started offering content on Patreon, so you might want to check that out.

Considering California's obstacles to gun ownership, it's unlikely that you will be able to purchase and train with a firearm before this crisis is over. When you get the chance to get defensive firearms training, I'll strongly recommend you check out ITTS just east of San Fernando.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
David S

ETA: I'm an uncompensated shill for several of the above listed companies. Nonetheless, I think you'll find they're generally held in high regard around here.

[Mark D]

California guy here, but not in your part of the state.

1. Go to your nearest gun store or Big 5 and ask them what you need to buy a gun. They'll get you started with the paperwork, possibly right there and then. As soon as you can, buy a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shot gun. Big 5 often has these ons sale. Or a rifle in a common caliber. Expect to pay >$300. Also expect to wait 10 days before you can pcik up the gun. The 10 day waiting period applies to all firearm tranactions, that's why I encourage people to act sooner rather than later.

2) As soon as possible, get a handgun. If you're serious about getting trained, get a Glock 19 or 17. The Gen 3 Glocks are on the California DOJ list of list of approved handguns. The Gen 3 Glocks are relatively plentiful here in CA usually, but will be harder to find right now. That said, my local gun store had 3 brand new ones on Wednesday, so you may get lucky. Expect to pay $550 plus DROS and Tax, so $600 - $650. Maybe a little more.

3) If you're not going to train with your handgun, get a revolver in .38 special or .357 magnum. The Ruger SP101 and GP100 are good to go, and are on the DOJ list of approved handguns. Here's the DOJ roster of approved handguns: https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search

4) Buy ammo, check Big 5 regularly, it's often a little cheaper than the gun store.

5) If you're going to train, and it's good idea to, check out ITTS. It will teach you everything you need to know about running a gun, and a lot about appropriate use of force. Scott Reitz and his team have been involved in, and investigated, shit tons of shootings. They're among the best in the west. ITTS: https://internationaltactical.com/

PM me if you want to discuss further.

[Totem Polar]

In addition to previous advice, I’d personally start with:

1) reinforce doors and windows, as mentioned.
2) get to know your neighbors. Good odds that they are having similar thoughts; if they’re cool, many hands make light work.
3) take any required basic class ASAP
4) take a long gun, platform-specific class as you can
5) take a tactical medical class when you can before buying a ton of medical gear. Other more informed opinions may well weigh in on this, but you can get a lot done with some israeli dressings, nitrile gloves, and a few chest seals (asherman chest seal)

The shotguns (M4 and 1301) each have some incredibly informed and experienced adherents around here. As they say, if it’s Italian and starts with “B” and it’s a practical/tactical model, it’s probably a good weapon. They do require some training to use well.

About the Ruger PCC and lever guns: I have a PCC and a lever or two. I would feel reasonably well-armed for indoor/urban type defensive purposes with either. That said, I have the luxury (for now) of using standard-capacity Glock magazines in the PCC—to say nothing of backing up the long gun with an actual Glock handgun in 17-to-19 round configuration. If I lived in a "ban state" (eg. CA with the 10-round magazine limit) or, if my state swings that way, I’d opt for the lever gun, personally, given the legal and social biases. There are some good threads as to both how and why here in the long guns subforum.

Just some thoughts, and the order I’d take things if starting from scratch.

[jayc]

Wow, some fantastic advice already here. Thank you all.

To address some of your questions:

Budget: Right now, it's unclear b/c I'm unfamiliar with what I need. In general, my purchasing philosophy is to buy the product that brings me the most bang for my buck. I rarely spend to get the absolute best, but we do splurge on things we really value. In this case, if folks here agree that the best firearm for my situation costs $$$$, then I'll likely buy it. I've never seen my wife's face that terrified and I don't want ever want to see that again.

Location: LA county

Housing: We're moving out of our apartment at the end of the month for unrelated reasons. Our next place will be a rental, still in LA county but in a different, less targeted town. Once we buy our own place, I'm fully implementing all your suggestions on securing our home. I especially like the zombie bar.

Pepper spray: Is this better than bear spray? I've done a lot of backpacking in bear country so I'm familiar with bear spray, although I've never used one on a bear.

Thank you for the shotgun suggestions. My hesitation with them is the time to reload. I may have seen a shotgun that takes magazines in a movie, but not sure if they really exist, especially in CA. What are your thoughts here?

My wife was gifted a wooden kendo sword and she has pepper spray, so those are our main weapons for now.

We have a heavy desk next to our front door. We used it to barricade the door.

We've identified one location and one cue to bug out of LA. We'll continue to build on that. If nothing happens, at least we have a plan in our back pocket.

For those who are familiar with CA gun laws, is there any possibility to buy an AR-15?

[jayc]

California guy here, but not in your part of the state.

1. Go to your nearest gun store or Big 5 and ask them what you need to buy a gun. They'll get you started with the paperwork, possibly right there and then. As soon as you can, buy a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shot gun. Big 5 often has these ons sale. Or a rifle in a common caliber. Expect to pay >$300. Also expect to wait 10 days before you can pcik up the gun. The 10 day waiting period applies to all firearm tranactions, that's why I encourage people to act sooner rather than later.

There's a Big 5 within walking distance. Unfortunately, they were completely looted and vandalized. That really set off my neighbors because we weren't sure if the looters got to their guns. Thanks for the suggestion. Guess I'll just have to find one further away.

[Num1dude]

Wow, some fantastic advice already here. Thank you all.

To address some of your questions:

Budget: Right now, it's unclear b/c I'm unfamiliar with what I need. In general, my purchasing philosophy is to buy the product that brings me the most bang for my buck. I rarely spend to get the absolute best, but we do splurge on things we really value. In this case, if folks here agree that the best firearm for my situation costs $$$$, then I'll likely buy it. I've never seen my wife's face that terrified and I don't want ever want to see that again.

Location: LA county

Housing: We're moving out of our apartment at the end of the month for unrelated reasons. Our next place will be a rental, still in LA county but in a different, less targeted town. Once we buy our own place, I'm fully implementing all your suggestions on securing our home. I especially like the zombie bar.

Pepper spray: Is this better than bear spray? I've done a lot of backpacking in bear country so I'm familiar with bear spray, although I've never used one on a bear.

Thank you for the shotgun suggestions. My hesitation with them is the time to reload. I may have seen a shotgun that takes magazines in a movie, but not sure if they really exist, especially in CA. What are your thoughts here?

My wife was gifted a wooden kendo sword and she has pepper spray, so those are our main weapons for now.

We have a heavy desk next to our front door. We used it to barricade the door.

We've identified one location and one cue to bug out of LA. We'll continue to build on that. If nothing happens, at least we have a plan in our back pocket.

For those who are familiar with CA gun laws, is there any possibility to buy an AR-15?

I too unfortunately live in California. You won’t be able to purchase an AR without at least grip fins stopping you from wrapping your thumb around the grip. Also you’ll be neutered to 10 rounds since you weren’t buying mags during “freedom week”. Also don’t forget about our awesome new ammunition background checks. Since you won’t be in the Ca DOJ system yet you might have to wait upwards of 30 days to clear an ammo background. I hope your family is safe and please consider how ridiculous these laws are next time you vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SecondsCount]

I have a spare 870 Express in a hunting configuration/26" barrel that I could send to your local FFL with ammo but I have no idea how to do that for a California resident. We could work out the price, etc in PM if someone can tell me how to do the rest.

[Suvorov]

Question:
Please recommend a firearm, gear, and accessories that I can legally obtain in CA to ward off the horde. Think protection against the zombie apocalypse. If the looters turn into rioters, I don't want to be stuck with nothing but spray suncreen.

Assume no police protection is coming in your replies.

I found a great training facility with ex-special forces as instructors. I plan to take many classes there so I don't end up as a fool hurting myself or my family.

Jayc,

I'm one of the members of PF trapped behind lines with you but up North in the SF Bay Area. I'm sorry things have gone down the way they have. As I type this reply I am monitoring the police scanners - my downtown is boarded up and there were rumors on social media that an "event" was planned for my town tonight. I have METT-T'ed the hell out of my defenses and wait. So far things have been quite. As the great gun banner once said - "I feel your pain"

As for your questions I'll break it down into 3 elements: Laws, Training, and Weapons. Weapons are the most "sexy" element here but really are tertiary so I will put them last.

I'm not a lawyer so please don't take what I am saying as gospel and your county may have certain legal differences from mine so double check. Also I'm sure we have some former LA cops that can chime in where I am wrong. As far as self defense laws, Kalifornia is not so bad. You have no duty to retreat and as long as you can show reasonable belief that you are another person is in grave danger you may use lethal force. Reasonable belief is the Ability, Opportunity, and Means to do you bodily harm. Applying to your situation however, things could get a lot more "gray" were to use weapons to defend your apartment complex instead of just your own dwelling. I know what I would do, but this is much more for the experts.

Training is another big thing and I congratulate you on identifying it as something that is needed. I see training as coming in two forms - firearms training where you learn the mechanics of shooting a firearm and legal/tactical training that teaches you how to employ your firearm. You need to seek out both and that often means you need a couple different instructors. Also vet the instructors and schools to make sure they are not teaching B.S. Be careful of schools that tout "special operations instructors" as they have been know to falsify their claims - there was a famous case a couple years back in the San Jose area. Also keep in mind that special ops guy may be able to teach you how to run a gun well but may not be all that up to speed on the legal aspects of use of force as well as the home defense tactics. Then again some of them are pure awesomeness, so again - vet them.

Finally guns. Basically you have three options or a combination of them. All are available in Kalifornia but with certain restrictions that may reduce their effectiveness but still allow you to defend yourself with training. First are the handguns which I would say are the base line home defense firearms (shotgun people will not like this). They are compact and easy to move with but harder to use and less effective. You can still acquire many quality handguns in Kalifornia - they just have to be on the "Roster" of approved handguns. https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert...andguns/search Regardless of pistol you choose, you will be limited to purchasing 10 round magazines although possession of larger magazines is currently legal. Just to cut though all the BS - Glock 17 and 19 pistols are where I would start. Next on the list are shotguns. Shotguns have probably the least amount of restrictions of any type of gun in Kalifornia. They are easier to use than a handgun and more powerful, but can be harder to shoot for some, harder to use in tight spaces, and more difficult to train with (many shooting ranges won't let you train defensive shotgun). The place I would start here are the Remington 870 and the Beretta 1300 - both of which are perfectly legal in Kalifornia. Lastly we have rifles - these are the most heavily regulated firearms in Kalifornia. Rifles are great defensive tools as they are easier to shoot well and more effective than a pistol but are harder to use in tight spaces. They also *may* give off a negative impression to others that a handgun or shotgun would not. AKs and ARs can be obtained but they are different that the "Free State" models. To comply with Kalifornia laws they either have to be "fixed magazine" or "featureless" guns. Fixed magazine means that the magazine can not be removed from the gun without opening the action. These guns are nice in that they look just like their "free state" counterparts but the essence of the magazine being fixed make them unsuitable for home defense. For home defense a "featureless" build would be the way to go. In general these rifles have some sort of modified "pistol grip" that makes them a little clumsier than their "free state" counterparts and can not have flash suppressors, but otherwise function like a regular rifle. If you spend the time to train with them, they will be perfectly suitable for home defense. I would stick to 5.56/223 or 7.62x39 for caliber. Many manufacturers such as Smith and Wesson are offering Kalifornia compliant AR models from the factory. Other rifles that offer similar capabilities to AR or AK platform rifles but are less affected by Kalifornia laws are Ruger Mini-14s and SKS carbines. I would stay away from Springfield M1As and other M14 pattern rifles and AR-10 rifles largely due to their high cost and the fact that .308/7.62 NATO are more caliber than you probably want for your task (but with right ammo selection will work). In a prefect world - a quality AR carbine would be the way to go, but you live in Kalifornia which is NOT perfect so I would consider the Mini-14 a viable solution if you don't like the Kalifornia legal AR/AK options.

Hope this helps and good luck.