Which SA/DA handgun for a novice with dry-fire training as primary goal?

[Gun Mutt]

Great answers so far, as expected...it is P-F afterall.


And now for something completely different: the Ruger LCR...the Ruger LCR.


Everyone should have a snubbie of some flavor, I prefer the LCR to the j-frame, YMMV.

You can DA dry fire to your heart's content and as is often said around here, getting good with a snubbie will make you better with larger pistols.

You can get the LCR in 9mm and not have to add another caliber to your world, if that matters to you.

Per Ruger, you can dry fire the .22LR version of the LCR and as you master that heavier rimfire trigger pull, you will again reap even greater benefits when shooting other platforms. And since it's a .22LR, you can pretty much live fire to your heart's content and reap all the benefits.

[Eyesquared]

Just my opinion but this talk of buying a different gun for dry fire is crazy talk. This is like choosing your car based on the shape of the steering wheel. For slow fire, racking the slide is not a big imposition. For everything else (draws, reloads, target transitions, movement, etc. ) the trigger system doesn't matter so much.

I know a lot of people say using a difficult trigger or small gun has made them better at shooting their fullsize guns or guns with better triggers, but I have not experienced this, except for a temporary sense of comfort at returning to my preferred gun. I have seen big improvements from dry firing regularly with the exact gun and gear I intend to shoot with.

[Aea]

Thanks for the extremely detailed and thought out responses all, I really appreciate it. You've definitely made me rethink my approach to this.

You can work on draws, holstering safely, reloads, transitions, movement, awkward positions, and so much more without pulling the trigger. In fact, I’ve come to realize that pulling the trigger gets in the way of a lot of dryfire drills. Now, I focus (pun intended) on an acceptable sight picture and target acquisition. I often skip the trigger press.

I'm a numbers orientated person and the reason I'm so focused on the actual trigger pull / break is that the Mantis X system I've been using relies on it to provide feedback on technique. I realize that's for a specific subset of drills but I've found it to be super useful thus far.

What about the P320 Sirt pistol?

https://nextleveltraining.com/product/sirt-20/

I've seen these before and they seem rather expensive for what you actually get.

The CoolFire system will actually cycle your slide and reset the trigger.

I love getting guns, but this could bee a case where getting an accessory system may be more beneficial.

Now this is truly exciting. I reached out to them to ask if the P320 version is compatible with my M17 (I thought I heard somewhere there are some differences in the internal slide / barrel designs between the P320 and M17 models. This might be the route I go.

One thing I'll add is there is some magazine that I forget the name of, maybe someone else here will now what I am talking about, but basically it is a dry fire only magazine you insert into your pistol and it resets the trigger in certain striker fired pistols. I think it was around $100 though. Personally I'd just get used to racking the slide and invest the money in a class or ammo or whatever else you may need.

Would love to know what product you're referring to if you manage to recall.

I concur with the dryfire book, it helps break up the monotony of dryfire training. I pick some fundamental aspect every week to practice. Draw stroke, sight alignment, trigger press, follow through - are the four major fundamental skills for pistol shooting. So, I pick something from that pile and then I often will add something else (target transitions, distance transitions, partially obscured targets, reloads, etc.) to my training pile for the week. I don't dryfire as much as some folks here, usually 60-minutes per week, but my goals are pretty basic and that is to maintain my existing skills and refine a few others (drawstroke mainly).

Are you referring to Ben Stoeger's Dryfire Reloaded that another member suggested or another book?

...

Appreciate the detailed advice. Thanks!

Your M17/P320 is just fine for dryfire. With a striker pistol you don’t NEED to rack the slide every time for every trigger press. With that gun simply release your finger out just past the reset point (not slowly) and press the trigger again with the same weight that you’d normally press the trigger. Rinse and repeat for whatever drill you may be working on. I do this with Glocks and it helps tremendously.

I didn't elaborate in my initial post, but part of the reason I rack is that I use a Mantis X and that depends on the striker actually moving. One thing with the M17 that I find annoying is that the trigger pull weight is really heavy. I don't have a pull gauge to measure unfortunately, it doesn't feel as bad (although I can be imagining things) with a magazine inserted but that causes the slide lock to engage. I may have to do some more research here to a) confirm my assumption and b) modify / purchase a magazine that doesn't trigger the slide lock so I can dry-fire with the same pull.

[Olim9]

If you can find one, those older P320's that haven't been recalled have a small feature where you get audible and tactile feedback when you press the trigger even when the striker has already dropped. On that note, does the cardboard/zip tie dryfire trick work on the P320? I know it does for sure with Glocks

You do already have a red dot, it's a very helpful tool in diagnosing what you're doing with a trigger press as it is.

[RevolverRob]

Thanks for the extremely detailed and thought out responses all, I really appreciate it. You've definitely made me rethink my approach to this.

I'm a numbers orientated person and the reason I'm so focused on the actual trigger pull / break is that the Mantis X system I've been using relies on it to provide feedback on technique. I realize that's for a specific subset of drills but I've found it to be super useful thus far.

I've seen these before and they seem rather expensive for what you actually get.

Now this is truly exciting. I reached out to them to ask if the P320 version is compatible with my M17 (I thought I heard somewhere there are some differences in the internal slide / barrel designs between the P320 and M17 models. This might be the route I go.

Would love to know what product you're referring to if you manage to recall.

Are you referring to Ben Stoeger's Dryfire Reloaded that another member suggested or another book?

Appreciate the detailed advice. Thanks!

I didn't elaborate in my initial post, but part of the reason I rack is that I use a Mantis X and that depends on the striker actually moving. One thing with the M17 that I find annoying is that the trigger pull weight is really heavy. I don't have a pull gauge to measure unfortunately, it doesn't feel as bad (although I can be imagining things) with a magazine inserted but that causes the slide lock to engage. I may have to do some more research here to a) confirm my assumption and b) modify / purchase a magazine that doesn't trigger the slide lock so I can dry-fire with the same pull.

Stoeger’s book would be fine to start.

For magazine inserted, but slide lockback - here you go: https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Safety-T.../dp/B07CNBDHSB

[spinmove_]

I didn't elaborate in my initial post, but part of the reason I rack is that I use a Mantis X and that depends on the striker actually moving. One thing with the M17 that I find annoying is that the trigger pull weight is really heavy. I don't have a pull gauge to measure unfortunately, it doesn't feel as bad (although I can be imagining things) with a magazine inserted but that causes the slide lock to engage. I may have to do some more research here to a) confirm my assumption and b) modify / purchase a magazine that doesn't trigger the slide lock so I can dry-fire with the same pull.

While the MantisX does provide some interesting data to reference, I’ve found it to ultimately be a distraction from the rest of the benefits that I get out of dryfire. Any practical use you have for a pistol is going to require you to press the trigger quicker and with more authority than what you're going to be doing by regularly racking the slide with whatever pistol you’re using. With the exception of a revolver or course, but I digress. Personally I find myself chasing PERFECT trigger presses with the Mantis which ultimately are of dubious use for the vast majority of what you should be practicing.

I’m not telling you what to do, but I can honestly say that you’ll get way better as a shooter if you don’t rely on it so heavily and start doing a lot more manipulations based dryfire. Drawing, transitions, reloads, and managing an acceptable sight picture while judiciously working the trigger will get you much farther.

Take a look at this quick video. Bob does a better job of explaining working the trigger in dryfire than I am.

https://youtu.be/beOVo1HQd30

[Clusterfrack]

I agree with @spinmove_. You can spend a lot of unproductive time down rabbit holes using expensive gimmicks to chase skill. I strongly recommend finding an expert instructor and following their advice. You can get good at shooting pistols fairly quickly, but it takes working on the right things. I don't think the Mantis is going to do that for you, and may get in the way because the time you spend with it could be used working on what you really need to work on.

[awp_101]

As a MantisX user myself, I would advise against changing the pistol just to suit the MantisX. At some point you’re to either outgrow it or get bored with it.

There’s a version of the Dryfire Mag that is compatible with the MantisX (there’s a review around here somewhere). I’d look at replacing your current Mantis with that before replacing the pistol. Unless you just absolutely want a new pistol...

[peterb]

Another option to keep the slide from locking back every time:

https://bloksafety.com/

The magazine inserts work well(on my G19) to keep the slide from locking back. The barrel insert can be an extra layer of safety.

[Clusterfrack]

I find a laser boresight to be a useful training tool for draws, trigger presses, transitions, movement, and more. Pop it in your chamber, and you can diagnose a lot of issues.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GGWJSJ6/