"War Belt" setups

[rcbusmc24]

Think of a chest rig or the pouches on your armor carrier as refills for your belt mounted mag pouch. I like to conduct all reloads to the both the rifle and pistol from my belt line. then when I have a moment I will refill the empty belt pouch with a fresh mag off my rig, whether it is just a chest rig or armor, I use both depending on the circumstances, environment, class type..... however most of my chest rigs also have the ability to clip into my plate carriers so that transition is also rather seamless. By always conducting the weapons reloads off of my belt I feel that I am not having to adjust on the fly to finding mags somewhere on my body, they are always on my right hip (left handed shooter)

As for the types of belts, I prefer to direct mount things to my pants belt, I still feel like this is the most secure method for me personally, I also do not tend o hang too much off my belt line if I do it this way. I also have a few Inner/Outer belts of these I like the Eagle industries one the best, I have 2 of these, one set up for USPSA matches and another set up from left to right with a Flashbang pouch (carrying a TQ fully enclosed), holster hanger, LBT low pro IFAK centered in the back, BFG low profile dump pouch single rifle mag and three pistol mag pouches.

For pouches I flip back and forth between the Esstac's and the HSGI taco's, I like the form factor of the Esstac's and I think they are "slightly" faster....for me, but I also have some rifles that are not supported by them so I also use the HSGI's.

[rob_s]

This shouldn’t really have to be said I don’t think, but I’ll say it anyway...

A lot of this “tactical” shit seems like a great idea until you actually go about trying to use it. Visit any large-ish training class, take a pic of all the dad-bod accountants and lawyers and postmen on day 1 all jocked up in war belts, plate carriers, helmets, and other horseshit and then take a pic of the same crew at the end of day 3. Better yet, come down here to Florida for a class in June and run this exercise.

IME, as a dad-bod Construction exec, I’ve found that you want to carry as little as required without going full-moron stuffing mags in your jeans pockets out of some sort of misguided “train as fight” or gun hipster contrarian a to-boomer nonsense.

I’ve done the battle belt, I’ve done the plate carrier, I’ve done the chest rig, I’ve even done the mag-in-pocket. And I spent a decade watching other people exceed even my own experimental boundaries, seeing them try and fail with more gear than I ever put on, and less than anyone with any sense couple possibly think would work.

If you are a non-LE civilian (and even probably most LE) and you carry.. sometimes, rarely, 24/7, whatever... everything you do should start and end around your carry setup. I’ll leave it to you to decide if that should include a cover garment or not. Take your carry setup, and build out, making sure not to negatively impact the base carry setup. If you find yourself in a class where you can’t do that, I’d submit that you are in the wrong class.

That said, if you are starting from zero with a carbine, I’d suggest finding a carbine-only course. Something like a Randy Cain carbine course. Get some basic manipulations and marksmanship without worrying about a bunch of gear, your pistol, etc.

My personal experience has been, once you do move on to a more involved class (Pat Rogers is u fortunately no longer an option, but Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics is a good one) having that background will help. And all you really need to do is add a single carbine mag pouch to your belt. And at least one pistol pouch if you don’t normally carry one. The add a chest rig that’s capable of carrying three rifle mags and resist the urge to add a bunch of other tactical crap until you run into an issue that could have been solved with a particular piece of kit. Wish your had a band aid on TD3? add a booboo kit for next time. Etc.

You’ll hear folks say “I’m just a civilian, I’ll never wear a chest rig in my real life gunfight”... there’s a lot wrong with that, but the main issue is that they aren’t wrong. It you’re not wearing the chest rig because you think you’ll put it on over your jammies back home. You’re wearing it because not wearing it may impede your training. And the way that you make sure that you don’t impede your gunfight, is that you use your chest rig to back feed your belt pouch, not to feed the gun. And if you don’t think you’ll have that belt ouch “in real life” then it really doesn’t matter where you reload your rifle from. And if you *do* think you’ll need a second mag in your gunfight, there are ways to deal with this (like the redimag) that won’t harm your carry setup and that you *will* have in your gunfight.

[JSGlock34]

I also have a few Inner/Outer belts of these I like the Eagle industries one the best, I have 2 of these, one set up for USPSA matches and another set up from left to right with a Flashbang pouch (carrying a TQ fully enclosed), holster hanger, LBT low pro IFAK centered in the back, BFG low profile dump pouch single rifle mag and three pistol mag pouches.

I've been using a Brokos Belt for a long time now, but it seems like inner/outer belts for tactical use are increasingly popular and they all appear to be a similar design (e.g. Eagle Operator's Gun Belt, Ronin Tactics, Blue Alpha Gear, Tyr, etc). You mention USPSA and there's a certain appeal to using a similar system for both requirements. How do you find these belts to compare to the Brokos set up?

[UNM1136]

It has been said at least twice now, so I will say it again.

Kyle Lamb teaches/taught that when he was with his Unit he and his guys ran what they called a "happy mag" carried support side hip. This was because his team would operate in civilian clothes and in uniform, with varying amounts of supporting equipment. The happy mag was where reloads came from, and it was in the same place, no matter how slick or jocked up the team was. They didn't have to unlearn specific motions based on what the uniform of the day was. Other mag pouches were used to backfill the happy mag pouch, when possible.

This works really well for me, beacause I don't always grab my plate carrier when I grab my rifle.

I like the simplicity of this approach, and now that I am loosing weight will be picking up a couple of the new molle'd BFG rifle mag pouches. One for a happy mag under my radio pouch on my left hip, and two behind other pouches to get my TQs in front of my hips.

@Nephrology a war belt covers 90+% of my usual usage. I would supplement it with a Tactical Tailor MAV or BFG chest rig, or a SO Tech Falcon chest rig can be picked up on ebay and really makes sense for going to classes. I like the Falcon for classes because it gives me six mags in a single layer, and I can pop the fastex and spread it out when I go prone. That gives me nine or ten mags ready to roll (six in the Falcon, the happy mag or two support side hip, and a RediMod with a mag on the gun and a mag in the gun. I don't need 10+ mags for a three to five day carbine class, but during breaks I would rather snack, hydrate and chat than be loading more mags.

pat

[rob_s]

I don't need 10+ mags for a three to five day carbine class, but during breaks I would rather snack, hydrate and chat than be loading more mags.

Agree totally.

My approach was to have enough mags loaded for an entire day. They fit very nicely in an ammo can, and I also commissioned US Grunt Gear to make for me a 10 mag purse that worked great. Carted that to the range with me, left the loose ammo in the hotel, jammed mags in the am while pre-hydrating. Then during the day between relays or at breaks, while everyone else was jamming mags, I snacked, chatted, napped... anything but jam mags?

[rcbusmc24]

I like to bring loaded mags to class in milk crates, but same idea of never having to stuff mags during breaks.

I used to have a brokos belt and used it quite a bit for a long while, never anything really wrong with it stand alone, but it didn't always play well with armor, which I use for work and some classes, the inner/ outer belts worked better for that so I migrated that way. I did like the speed of getting the brokos belt on. If I didn't have the armor integration issues there is a good chance I'd still be using it.

[Elwin]

This shouldn’t really have to be said I don’t think, but I’ll say it anyway . . .

I’m undecided as to whether these questions are relevant here or need to go somewhere else, so everyone feel free to let me know I’m a dumbass if this is too much of a derail.

This makes a lot of sense to me and reflects what I’ve been trying to do. I’d rather always leave my pistol, reload, and knife where they are in my EDC, which is AIWB/centerline. I’ve found I can add a second pistol reload and a rifle mag OWB and still reasonably conceal everything with an extra unbuttoned shirt over a T shirt or with looser fitting sweaters and flannels.

My questions are: 1, is there a good way to add a small mags-only chest rig to this for classes without completely fouling my pistol draw, since I understand the concept that more mags on the line is better and I can use the rig to refill my belt pouch. 2, as suggested by your comment about the wrong class, is it generally feasible to find an instructor who will allow an AIWB pistol in a rifle class? I’ve seen a few requirements out there for OWB secondaries, which I’m not enthusiastic about since I have no reason to ever carry OWB otherwise.

Also, I am one of those dad bod lawyers.

[rob_s]

I’m undecided as to whether these questions are relevant here or need to go somewhere else, so everyone feel free to let me know I’m a dumbass if this is too much of a derail.

This makes a lot of sense to me and reflects what I’ve been trying to do. I’d rather always leave my pistol, reload, and knife where they are in my EDC, which is AIWB/centerline. I’ve found I can add a second pistol reload and a rifle mag OWB and still reasonably conceal everything with an extra unbuttoned shirt over a T shirt or with looser fitting sweaters and flannels.

My questions are: 1, is there a good way to add a small mags-only chest rig to this for classes without completely fouling my pistol draw, since I understand the concept that more mags on the line is better and I can use the rig to refill my belt pouch. 2, as suggested by your comment about the wrong class, is it generally feasible to find an instructor who will allow an AIWB pistol in a rifle class? I’ve seen a few requirements out there for OWB secondaries, which I’m not enthusiastic about since I have no reason to ever carry OWB otherwise.

Also, I am one of those dad bod lawyers.

Just my $0.02 from someone that doesn’t carry AIWB...

I think a first carbine class shouldn’t include pistol at all. I don’t know of Randy Cain’s does or not, it’s been a long time since I took it, but my recollection is that it doesn’t. It’s also a rifle class with carbines where almost every other carbine class I’ve ever taken was really a pistol class with a carbine. Which means you shoot out to 200 yards at Randy’s class (vs maybe 50 at a lot of others), facility permitting, which in turn means lower round counts and lower on-body mag needs (due to all the walking back and forth, to some degree).

Everyone wants to do transitions because they’re sexy. Maybe it’s a worthwhile skill, maybe not. I’d argue that 99% of learning transitions is dry reps and un-fucking gear anyway, and I’d rather shoot the rifle at the rifle class. I’d probably steer away from a first class if that class was heavy on the transition stuff.

I’ll have to leave it to someone else to talk about chest rigs and AIWB. But I would say that I wouldn’t opt out of a otherwise good class just to have my preferred carry position. If you’re in a carbine class, the pistol should be a distant concern, and the couple of transitions you might do aren’t likely to hurt you if you have to go OWB strong side for three days. I know that probably sounds like I’m contradicting myself and maybe I am. Maybe for an AIWB carrier a war belt is the way to go if you can either draw from behind it or put your pistol in and appendix location On the belt.

[Wheeler]

Just my $0.02 from someone that doesn’t carry AIWB...

I think a first carbine class shouldn’t include pistol at all. I don’t know of Randy Cain’s does or not, it’s been a long time since I took it, but my recollection is that it doesn’t. It’s also a rifle class with carbines where almost every other carbine class I’ve ever taken was really a pistol class with a carbine. Which means you shoot out to 200 yards at Randy’s class (vs maybe 50 at a lot of others), facility permitting, which in turn means lower round counts and lower on-body mag needs (due to all the walking back and forth, to some degree).

Everyone wants to do transitions because they’re sexy. Maybe it’s a worthwhile skill, maybe not. I’d argue that 99% of learning transitions is dry reps and un-fucking gear anyway, and I’d rather shoot the rifle at the rifle class. I’d probably steer away from a first class if that class was heavy on the transition stuff.

I’ll have to leave it to someone else to talk about chest rigs and AIWB. But I would say that I wouldn’t opt out of a otherwise good class just to have my preferred carry position. If you’re in a carbine class, the pistol should be a distant concern, and the couple of transitions you might do aren’t likely to hurt you if you have to go OWB strong side for three days. I know that probably sounds like I’m contradicting myself and maybe I am. Maybe for an AIWB carrier a war belt is the way to go if you can either draw from behind it or put your pistol in and appendix location On the belt.

For the private citizen's defensive gun use, long gun to pistol transitions are just about as likely as emergency reloads for pistols because you ran the gun dry. But look at how many pistol drills emphasize reloads. It's a viable skill if only because of the administrative portion but not what I'd think of as a primary skill.

[krax]

For any portion of a class that doesn't involve a lot of movement, why a chest rig instead of a dump pouch on your belt and/or a small satchel on the ground behind you for extra mags and such?

I've been through a fair amount of training, and unless I'm doing movement or stress shoots, it's never so fast-paced that I can't grab a fresh mag, water bottle, or a handful of loose rounds out of a dump pouch while on the line or get a lens wipe or spritz of sunscreen out of a range bag between iterations.