"War Belt" setups

[rob_s]

For any portion of a class that doesn't involve a lot of movement, why a chest rig instead of a dump pouch on your belt and/or a small satchel on the ground behind you for extra mags and such?

I've been through a fair amount of training, and unless I'm doing movement or stress shoots, it's never so fast-paced that I can't grab a fresh mag, water bottle, or a handful of loose rounds out of a dump pouch while on the line or get a lens wipe or spritz of sunscreen out of a range bag between iterations.

Speaking from my own experience...

Pouch on the ground is not ideal. You can’t be turning around to go looking for mags, it’s generally not safe among other things. Which means leave it at your feet, but then you’re still bending over, and over, and over... not fun. I tried one of those shoulder bags once, and it sucked so bad I left it on the ground. That was even worse.

Dump pouch can work, and I’ve used it when a relay calls for more than one in gun, one on belt, three on chest (which is extremely rare) but IME it starts to drag on the pants, and things can get loose when moving, going prone, etc.

Chest rig has zero of any of those problems, stays tight to the body, doesn’t require bending to get to, doesn’t drag on pants, etc. I don’t see the downside.

[rob_s]

For the private citizen's defensive gun use, long gun to pistol transitions are just about as likely as emergency reloads for pistols because you ran the gun dry. But look at how many pistol drills emphasize reloads. It's a viable skill if only because of the administrative portion but not what I'd think of as a primary skill.

Right, but much like the reloads you’re bring up, everyone wants to do them because they are fun.

[bravo7]

For work and training, I have changed from a fully loaded belt to as little as possible on the belt coupled with either a chest rig or plate carrier mission dependent on the mission. I have found that taking all that extra weight of the waist was quite beneficial. My Ronin belt only has a mid ride ALS, one M4 Esstac mag carrier, and two Esstac pistol mag carriers. My chest rig is set up pretty much the same as my plate carrier so everything is consistent.

[krax]

Speaking from my own experience...

Pouch on the ground is not ideal. You can’t be turning around to go looking for mags, it’s generally not safe among other things. Which means leave it at your feet, but then you’re still bending over, and over, and over...

Chest rig....I don’t see the downside.

You can't turn around in a class? How do you ever get back up range to your car? Certainly there's going to be more safety concerns in some open-enrollment courses, but you ought to be able to holster/sling your gun, turn around, walk a step or two, bend down to grab a mag out of a bag, turn back around, and walk back to the line without pointing a gun at somebody. As for bending over, that may be a mobility issue; get your yoga on for a happier life on and off the range.

The downside to wearing a chest rig at the range, for me anyway, is the heat retention and the extra weight. I'll wear plates and various accouterments as appropriate for training, but I feel like keeping as slick as possible keeps my mind off of my gear and on the shooting.

[rob_s]

You can't turn around in a class? How do you ever get back up range to your car? Certainly there's going to be more safety concerns in some open-enrollment courses, but you ought to be able to holster/sling your gun, turn around, walk a step or two, bend down to grab a mag out of a bag, turn back around, and walk back to the line without pointing a gun at somebody. As for bending over, that may be a mobility issue; get your yoga on for a happier life on and off the range.

The downside to wearing a chest rig at the range, for me anyway, is the heat retention and the extra weight. I'll wear plates and various accouterments as appropriate for training, but I feel like keeping as slick as possible keeps my mind off of my gear and on the shooting.

Here we go with the fitness red herring again. Yes I *can* bend over but why would I if I don’t have to? Same thing with heavy vs light gear, yes I *can* choose a heavier piece of gear but why would I if a lighter one will do?

We are talking about two different things. I’m talking about having mags on your body so you can keep up with the class. One mag in gun, one mag on belt, three mags on chest. I’ve rarely gotten to the third chest mags. So no, most classes are not going to be cool with you constantly dipping off the line to go wandering back to grab more mags. As someone that’s supervised a lot of open-Enrollment lines, I would not ever allow that either. You often have no real idea who these people are or what their background is. Face the targets until we clear the line, thanks.

A small, light, chest rig that holds only three mags is not a heat issue. I’ve done all my shooting and training in South and Central Florida. It’s a non-issue. Particularly if you pick the right one. The problem comes in when guys think they need 5 mags, a blowout kit, a giant Bowie knife, a tourniquet, maybe a pistol and some pistol mags, etc. that’s not what I’m talking about. The old Eagle M4LE chest rig was the best thing going, but even that can be improved on and lightened. I worked with US grunt Gear to tweak his design to come up with this chest rig. Order it with the un-padded straps and h-harness. We trimmed the corners off the Eagle precisely to make it less hot, among other things.

At the end of the day we all have to find what works for us. You’re a heat-pussy, I’m a flexibility-pussy.
Anyone in a class is going to deal with some level of discomfort, each person just needs to come up with their own compromises.

[LOKNLOD]

Here's my old belt rig. I think most of the bits are no longer available as-shown but the concepts still exist. It's state of the art circa 2008


Pistol mags and first AR mag are in rigid pouches. All reloads come primarily from the first AR pouch.
AR mags in 10-speed pouches are to backfill the rigid pouch. If there's nothing in that first pouch, the hand can just sweep back til it hits one of them. But they don't get "fed" under pressure. They're basically non-existent when empty so its possible to run entirely off the main pouch if wanted.
Partials get dumped in the dump pouch if you're trying to retain anything. A dump pouch is just all around handy for the line in a class as it can help keep you from needing to bend and pick as much. I've even tossed it on a regular belt for use during a pistol class when running from concealment. It's just handy, period.
Holster is on a really high-cut platform and rides more like a drop-offset comp holster than a drop leg. I've done a run-n-gun 5k in it so it's plenty good for any movement level i'm capable of achieving. But it also serves to keep the belt anchored at the right level and rotation. I've got an ALS now that has mostly replaced that older SLS.

I wouldn't move stuff to my chest until i'd exhausted options on my waist. It's just more comfortable there, and I think it's better setup specifically for rifle work. That said, it's not something i can toss on over my carry gear easily. I wouldn't fault any logic in tossing on a basic chest rig and ignoring belt stuff, if I'm practicing or training with a setup to mirror a "grab and go" setup that goes with my normal carry/dress. It wouldn't be hard to clip a mag pouch onto the belt similarly and still run reloads in the same spot.

[Wheeler]

Here's my old belt rig. I think most of the bits are no longer available as-shown but the concepts still exist. It's state of the art circa 2008


Pistol mags and first AR mag are in rigid pouches. All reloads come primarily from the first AR pouch.
AR mags in 10-speed pouches are to backfill the rigid pouch. If there's nothing in that first pouch, the hand can just sweep back til it hits one of them. But they don't get "fed" under pressure. They're basically non-existent when empty so its possible to run entirely off the main pouch if wanted.
Partials get dumped in the dump pouch if you're trying to retain anything. A dump pouch is just all around handy for the line in a class as it can help keep you from needing to bend and pick as much. I've even tossed it on a regular belt for use during a pistol class when running from concealment. It's just handy, period.
Holster is on a really high-cut platform and rides more like a drop-offset comp holster than a drop leg. I've done a run-n-gun 5k in it so it's plenty good for any movement level i'm capable of achieving. But it also serves to keep the belt anchored at the right level and rotation. I've got an ALS now that has mostly replaced that older SLS.

I wouldn't move stuff to my chest until i'd exhausted options on my waist. It's just more comfortable there, and I think it's better setup specifically for rifle work. That said, it's not something i can toss on over my carry gear easily. I wouldn't fault any logic in tossing on a basic chest rig and ignoring belt stuff, if I'm practicing or training with a setup to mirror a "grab and go" setup that goes with my normal carry/dress. It wouldn't be hard to clip a mag pouch onto the belt similarly and still run reloads in the same spot.

How is your holster attached to your belt? More specifically which bit of Safariland voodoo did you use to attach to a wider MOLLE belt?

[LOKNLOD]

How is your holster attached to your belt? More specifically which bit of Safariland voodoo did you use to attach to a wider MOLLE belt?

It's an old ICE belt, there's a slot in the bottom of the MOLLE padded part, and the 6004 Loop just goes in and around the inner belt (I think it's was a BFG inner belt).

[Wheeler]

It's an old ICE belt, there's a slot in the bottom of the MOLLE padded part, and the 6004 Loop just goes in and around the inner belt (I think it's was a BFG inner belt).

Thanks. Is the loop large enough to go around the larger belt portion? I have an Eagle Industries belt I'm using and am looking for better mounting options for my 6005.

[LOKNLOD]

Thanks. Is the loop large enough to go around the larger belt portion? I have an Eagle Industries belt I'm using and am looking for better mounting options for my 6005.

It's basically just a strap with velcro. Look at one of the 6004 setups, it's pretty bare bones. Whether it would reach around or not I don't know... i know I trimmed mine up when I raised it. I was making one of these (weren't as readily available then).