Gun Sales during riots

[Medusa]

I can play too. Was it in fact a rhetorical question? Or you honestly just have no idea whom you’re talking to? Did you honestly have no idea if I’d voted for trump?

The map would look different if more of those who vote against trump and his ilk were gun owners. I believe many on the left would benefit from exercising those rights. If and when they do, gun ownership won’t be seen or even hinted at as a proxy or correlate for voting red. One assumes the point of the graphic was to assert such a correlation and to invite inferences from it.

I made the comment about the rights belonging to everyone because in this thread and at least one other, I see a repeated implication by some members that there is an inherent rather than an accidental correlation between firearm ownership and voting red. I am a small counter example to that, and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right, the number of counter examples would increase...a lot.

[TGS]

and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right,

Well, I think that's the problem there. The values held by the left are incongruent with the values, and theory, of firearms ownership. To put it bluntly: diametrically opposed. That's a truth that is isolated from judgement and whether anyone thinks good or bad things about the left's values.

[Medusa]

Sure, just as values on the right are inconsistent with freedom from religion, separation of church and state, equal protection of law, and self determination. Eta -I don’t believe this, I’m just playing the same game you are.

You are in fact mistaken, and the values above are ones we can hold on either side. Stamp your foot and say otherwise if you’d like, it won’t change the fact that there have been armed people on both sides for as long as there has been a United States.

i have the right to defend myself. So do you. That’s always been true and it always will be.

[blues]

Well, I think that's the problem there. The values held by the left are incongruent with the values, and theory, of firearms ownership. To put it bluntly: diametrically opposed. That's a truth that is isolated from judgement and whether anyone thinks good or bad things about the left's values.

Honestly, I don't know how you can support that statement absent the use of sophistry. Simply defining "the left" alone is a monumental task.

"The Left" is not a monolith, to my knowledge. But you can couch any argument in terms of your own choosing.

I'm sure that as a pretty confirmed moderate I hold dear values from both the left and the right. I find "labels" excessively confining.

No one side has a monopoly on what is true, right and correct. Feel free to fire away. I'll respond if I'm not too lazy.

[TGS]

Sure, just as values on the right are inconsistent with freedom from religion, separation of church and state, equal protection of law, and self determination. Eta -I don’t believe this, I’m just playing the same game you are.

I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*

[blues]

I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*

ETA: The following is a non sequitur since it is a response to a response not made to me... I acknowledge the error...

Okay. And anyone who doesn't completely go it alone and has insurance, mutual funds or pools money with neighbors to pay for common tasks is a socialist.

There's just no hard and fast rule for where the lines intersect and where they diverge.

To paraphrase what a very stable genius once said, there are "very fine people" on both sides.

[TGS]

No one side has a monopoly on what is true, right and correct. Feel free to fire away.

To paraphrase what a very stable genius once said, there are "very fine people" on both sides.

I don't know why you've brought this concept up twice now when the first post I made on the subject stated that I wasn't making a judgement about the values held being good/bad.

[blues]

I don't know why you've brought this concept up twice now when the first post I made on the subject stated that I wasn't making a judgement about the values held being good/bad.

Pardon the intrusion, sir, if I offend. I suppose I read a negative connotation into your dismissal of things antithetical to the left. I beg your leave and shall endeavor to offend no further.


Sorry for the confusion, @TGS, I was taking your comment to Ms. Medusa as a response to my post earlier. The error is mine.

[Medusa]

I would actually say that statement is mostly true.

*shrug*

All right, so let’s explore what happens if we take my “for the sake of argument” statement about conservative values as true. What implications can we draw?

That only persons following the “right” religion, who do not support equal protection of law, freedom from religion, and self determination have the correct mindset and propositional attitudes for ownership of firearms? If you believe this is an incorrect implication or inference, what makes it incorrect?

[BehindBlueI's]

I can play too. Was it in fact a rhetorical question? Or you honestly just have no idea whom you’re talking to? Did you honestly have no idea if I’d voted for trump?

The map would look different if more of those who vote against trump and his ilk were gun owners. I believe many on the left would benefit from exercising those rights. If and when they do, gun ownership won’t be seen or even hinted at as a proxy or correlate for voting red. One assumes the point of the graphic was to assert such a correlation and to invite inferences from it.

I made the comment about the rights belonging to everyone because in this thread and at least one other, I see a repeated implication by some members that there is an inherent rather than an accidental correlation between firearm ownership and voting red. I am a small counter example to that, and i think if more on the left would become gun owners, recognizing the importance and real value of the right, the number of counter examples would increase...a lot.

I've yet to see anyone here state or imply that the 2nd amendment only applies to those who believe as they do. I've seen plenty of people note that voting for a Democrat is typically a vote against 2nd amendment rights, though, and largely agree despite the fact I'm a split ticket voter myself and didn't vote for a POTUS candidate at all last election because they were both shit. I'm certainly not at all sure how you managed to read that into the map, but my interest has waned at this point.