Benjamin Crump: When will African Americans have the right to self defense?

[TAZ]

John McNeil, an upper class black homeowner, shot an aggressive armed white trespasser in stand-your-ground Georgia and was convicted of murder & sentenced to life (the DA pressed charges despite police detectives ruling it self defense). It took 8 years before he won his release via appeal - just days after his wife died.

Confused... Aside from 1 case which sounds horrific, how does that 1 event justify broad brush claim that Black folks dont have the same rights to self defense as others. Its along the same vein as the crazy assertion that all black people are criminals cause someone just saw a black guy rob a liquor store. Show me information that systemic depravation of self defense rights are being denied minorities and stop with the 1 she twosie cases (not directed at you but the media/political hacks in general).

Confused about the case you mention as well. Did the detectives lie on the stand when called to testify or did they speak the truth and state that their findings were that this guy defended himself. Was he convicted or did he cop a plea due to incompetent representation? Dont get me wrong the case sounds horrible and assuming the guy did defend himself, the DA who went ahead should be under a jail or preferably riding ole sparky as an example.

[0ddl0t]

Confused... Aside from 1 case which sounds horrific, how does that 1 event justify broad brush claim that Black folks dont have the same rights to self defense as others. Its along the same vein as the crazy assertion that all black people are criminals cause someone just saw a black guy rob a liquor store. Show me information that systemic depravation of self defense rights are being denied minorities and stop with the 1 she twosie cases (not directed at you but the media/political hacks in general).

The case isn't unique, but it is what came to mind. It happened around the same time as the Harold Fish fiasco but received no attention from the gun community/NRA.

Another was Corey Jones, a black CCWer killed beside his broken down car by a plain clothes cop who never identified himself. Then there was Philando Castile - the black CCWer killed by a jumpy cop after inelegantly informing the officer he was armed - a requirement of his permit. And Harith Augustus, an otherwise law abiding black barber killed by police using terrible tactics (he had been stopped because his pistol was printing while walking home and was in the process of handing over his Firearms Owners ID card when another unseen officer suddenly grabbed him from behind. Augustus then struggled and ran, and was shot & killed).

Confused about the case you mention as well. Did the detectives lie on the stand when called to testify or did they speak the truth and state that their findings were that this guy defended himself. Was he convicted or did he cop a plea due to incompetent representation? Dont get me wrong the case sounds horrible and assuming the guy did defend himself, the DA who went ahead should be under a jail or preferably riding ole sparky as an example.

No, the DA just pressed on with despite the finding of the officers and managed to win a conviction McNeil's son had initially been threatened at knifepoint by the white tresspasser (a former home construction contractor violating a restraining order). The son called McNeil, who raced home and dialed 911 on the way.

While enroute, McNeil did make an unfortunate comment to the 911 dispatcher (something like "I’m going to whup his ass this time") and once at home in his driveway, McNeil had to pause to load his pistol - with hollow points - apparently showing premeditation according to the DA. On the other hand, McNeil gave multiple verbal commands to stop yet the white intruder continued advancing. McNeil then fired a warning shot into the ground and the intruder continued to charge before McNeil finally shot him.

His neighbor, who had also had problems with this contractor, happened to be waxing his Ferrari at the time and witnessed everything.

[TAZ]

Thats a messed up case. Thanks for the explanation.

[HCM]

Can black Americans exercise their Second Amendment right to bear arms? Can they stand their ground? Can they claim self-defense in shooting someone who threatens them with physical harm? Does the castle doctrine, which grants a person the right to use deadly force to protect their home from an intruder, apply to them?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...se/5277733002/

When they move to Canada. Oh wait....

[0ddl0t]

[karandom]

No, the DA just pressed on with despite the finding of the officers and managed to win a conviction McNeil's son had initially been threatened at knifepoint by the white tresspasser (a former home construction contractor violating a restraining order). The son called McNeil, who raced home and dialed 911 on the way.

While enroute, McNeil did make an unfortunate comment to the 911 dispatcher (something like "I’m going to whup his ass this time") and once at home in his driveway, McNeil had to pause to load his pistol - with hollow points - apparently showing premeditation according to the DA. On the other hand, McNeil gave multiple verbal commands to stop yet the white intruder continued advancing. McNeil then fired a warning shot into the ground and the intruder continued to charge before McNeil finally shot him.

His neighbor, who had also had problems with this contractor, happened to be waxing his Ferrari at the time and witnessed everything.

Interesting case. One of the comments from a juror struck me:

“The guy just went off,” said the juror who requested anonymity. “You know anybody who carries around a gun with hollow point bullets? They aren’t just wanting to scare somebody. What did he expect would happen? I think rage just ate him up.”

Last paragraph of the article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/was-s...SoLQBBZynZdVJ/

I often see questions around if modifying a gun could be used against you in a self defense situation, but even ammunition selection could be misconstrued as well.

[olstyn]

Then there was Philando Castile - the black CCWer killed by a jumpy cop after inelegantly informing the officer he was armed - a requirement of his permit.

You have at least one fact wrong here - the Castile case was in MN, and there is no duty to inform in MN. The cop involved was absolutely too jumpy, but Castile was in no way required to declare that he had a gun, and "inelegantly" means that he did in fact reach his hand suddenly toward the gun, so it's not like you can exactly say he did everything right. That's not to say he should be dead, but holding him up as an example to make the point you're making is perhaps less effective than you intend.

[0ddl0t]

Interesting case. One of the comments from a juror struck me:

“The guy just went off,” said the juror who requested anonymity. “You know anybody who carries around a gun with hollow point bullets? They aren’t just wanting to scare somebody. What did he expect would happen? I think rage just ate him up.”

Last paragraph of the article.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/was-s...SoLQBBZynZdVJ/

I often see questions around if modifying a gun could be used against you in a self defense situation, but even ammunition selection could be misconstrued as well.

Yep, a juror in the Harold Fish case (around the same time) had the same sentiment:

And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used.

Elliot: The whole hollow point thing bothered me. That bullet is designed to do as much damage as absolutely possible. It’s designed to kill.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15199221/n.../#.XtcDIzBlBdY

You have at least one fact wrong here - the Castile case was in MN, and there is no duty to inform in MN. The cop involved was absolutely too jumpy, but Castile was in no way required to declare that he had a gun, and "inelegantly" means that he did in fact reach his hand suddenly toward the gun, so it's not like you can exactly say he did everything right. That's not to say he should be dead, but holding him up as an example to make the point you're making is perhaps less effective than you intend.

You're right that MN state doesn't have a duty to inform, though from the dashcam audio it seems Castille thought he had to (and apparently did so while reaching for his wallet/ID).

Yanez asks for Castile's driver's license and insurance.
Thirty seconds into the conversation, Castile begins to tell Yanez that he has a weapon.
Castile: Sir, I have to tell you I do have a ...
Yanez: OK.
Castile: ... firearm on me.
Yanez: OK
Castile: I (inaudible)
Yanez: Don't reach for it then.
Castile: I'm, I, I was reaching for ...
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Castile: I'm not pulling it out.
Reynolds: He's not.
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Yanez, whose hand had been near his gun, pulls out his weapon and fires seven rapid shots into the car, striking Castile five times.
Reynolds: You just killed my boyfriend.
Castile: I wasn't reaching ...
Reynolds: He wasn't reaching.
Yanez: Don't pull it out!
Reynolds: He wasn't.
Yanez: Don't move! (Expletive.)

[olstyn]

You're right that MN state doesn't have a duty to inform, though from the dashcam audio it seems Castille thought he had to (and apparently did so while reaching for his wallet/ID).

Yanez asks for Castile's driver's license and insurance.
Thirty seconds into the conversation, Castile begins to tell Yanez that he has a weapon.
Castile: Sir, I have to tell you I do have a ...
Yanez: OK.
Castile: ... firearm on me.
Yanez: OK
Castile: I (inaudible)
Yanez: Don't reach for it then.
Castile: I'm, I, I was reaching for ...
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Castile: I'm not pulling it out.
Reynolds: He's not.
Yanez: Don't pull it out.
Yanez, whose hand had been near his gun, pulls out his weapon and fires seven rapid shots into the car, striking Castile five times.
Reynolds: You just killed my boyfriend.
Castile: I wasn't reaching ...
Reynolds: He wasn't reaching.
Yanez: Don't pull it out!
Reynolds: He wasn't.
Yanez: Don't move! (Expletive.)

Yeah, I'm familiar with the transcript. It was big news both locally and on p-f at the time. Basically both sides of that encounter screwed up in ways that were entirely preventable.

[Coyotesfan97]

That one kind of hits home. I think I’ve posted this before. I stopped a car that was driven by the male half of a family fight. He was Black. He told me he had a gun and where it was. I told him not to reach for it and what does he do? He shoves his hand under the seat and pulls it out. I can still see it coming out. It was a S&W semi auto. The barrel was pointed towards the floorboard of the car and his hand was on the grip. I rose up on on my balls of my feet just like I’d been trained in vehicle assaults because there were passengers, I drew and I picked out the spot where his neck met his shoulder, and I told him to fucking drop it. If the gun had even moved A millimeter towards me at all I’d have shot him. He dropped it and after we had him detained he wanted to make a complaint because he was just going to give it to me. The watch Lieutenant had responded and I told him what had happened. He was a former SWAT Team Leader and I’d worked for him. When he told the driver he was extremely lucky I was an experienced SWAT member as he’d probably been shot by another Officer. I actually saw it click in his eyes who close he’d been to being shot. He didn’t file a complaint. Now I always preface asking about weapons with “without reaching for it“. And people still do...