Does a short barrel .45 make sense

[marinedoc]

I'm going with the consensus of: no. I have a Colt 1917 Fitz clone. I can't say what speed the bullets are hitting but, out of a 2" barrel, 1 to 2 rounds a cylinder will keyhole. To me that says the velocity is getting down to the lower limit of stabilizing the round. Fun range toy and that big bore muzzle looks intimidating as all get out. Realistically though I'm reaching for something else for self defense.

Totally agree. Maybe for a different reason, but when I was a cop, got good prices on most guns. Picked up a Kimber 3" bbl in .45 acp. Simply put, I couldn't shoot it very accurately, and especially under timed restraints with multiple rounds fired. You obviously lose velocity vs longer bbl's. Wasn't any more concealable than my 4.25" .45 and certainly not any more comfortable. Quickly back to my 4" bbl guns for all EDC, whether 9mm or .45 acp. which I shoot well under all circumstances.

[corneileous]

I like the .45 and many of the guns made for it. It just loses too much juice in a short barrel for me to trust it for life-saving purposes. If I were going to carry a 3-3.5" .45 for defense/leo use, the only load I know of and that I would feel comfortable with is a 185 Barnes Copper hollowpoint as put out by a couple of different manufactures.

I can understand that, hence the reason I asked about it. But are these what you’re talking about? But why these? Why would these, even in the lighter weight be trusted by you over the 230 gr HST’s or Speer Gold Dots?

If one wants a short barrel gun and doesn't like 9mm and can't/won't shoot the exotic ammo, then a 180 grain .40 works fine assuming you can shoot it well enough.

I’m not saying you’re assuming this but it’s not like I don’t like 9mm’s, I just figured at the time since both the 9mm and 45 XDE were relatively close in ammo capacity that the 45 would be a better stopper since the 230 gr HST’s had great ballistics penetration and expansion through four layers of denim in a 16 inch block of gel and not to mention the quarter-sized wound channel they make.

The above are my opinions. I am not an expert. My opinions are based on what experts have said and what I have seen and read. If my opinion doesn't work anyone, please ignore it and do what makes you feel good.

Anyone that has useful knowledge and experience, and does what they do, must be for a reason. All I’m asking is for is friendly advice.


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[BehindBlueI's]

Ok so, after reading this article about full wadcutters and semi-wadcutters, explain to me please on why this would make a good self defense round? Keep in mind, I know little to nothing about wadcutter ammo even after reading this article.


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The general idea is if you're not going to get expansion anyway a wadcutter is preferable to a ball round. The shoulder makes it less like to skip off bone and does more damage to tissue in it's direct path.

[Trooper224]

How come? For recoil reduction? Does this recommendation have anything to do with a faster/lighter bullet having better chances at expansion compared to a slower/heavier bullet? What about barrier penetration through a car door with a 165, 185, 200 or 230gr 45? I ask this because since I spend the majority of my time in a semi, and with all this rioting crap going on, I would think that my chances of having to shoot through my truck door would be more common than the short time I spend outside of the truck but still, both environments still exist so I can understand finding a happy medium for both.


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You answered your own question.

As for shooting into, or in your case out of, vehicles: any time I was involved in those activities with a .45 it was with a 230 grain projectile, because that's what my agency issued. So, I really can't speak to the comparative capability of the lighter rounds.

I will say that my experience indicates that 9mm penetrates the cab of a John Deere combine better than .45acp.

[corneileous]

The general idea is if you're not going to get expansion anyway a wadcutter is preferable to a ball round. The shoulder makes it less like to skip off bone and does more damage to tissue in it's direct path.

Why wouldn’t I have penetration?


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[BehindBlueI's]

Why wouldn’t I have penetration?


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What?

[corneileous]

You answered your own question.

As for shooting into, or in your case out of, vehicles: any time I was involved in those activities with a .45 it was with a 230 grain projectile, because that's what my agency issued. So, I really can't speak to the comparative capability of the lighter rounds.

I will say that my experience indicates that 9mm penetrates the cab of a John Deere combine better than .45acp.

The recoil reduction I could see beneficial but I just wonder if there’d really be any felt difference between 230gr and 185gr. Guess I’d just have to try a box or two and see.

But as far as the lighter/faster bullet being better, I wasn’t saying that based on being fact at least from me because I just simply don’t know. All i know is there’s a ton of people on both sides of the fence where one group says lighter/faster is better and the other group says heavier is better for maximum impact energy. I don’t even know where I stand on that. Lol.

But depending on the situation, wouldn’t point blank firing through a door be a little different from firing through a door from afar? I don’t know about firing a round through the door of my pickup but firing a round through the door of this Pete would seem like a much easier feat.


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[corneileous]

What?

You said if I’m not going to have penetration anyway that a wadcutter would be better than just FMJ’s and I was asking why I wouldn’t have penetration from a tried and true hollow point......


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[Half Moon]

@corneileous

There's a couple questions here;

Wadcutters: generally get good penetration even at low velocities and the flat profile and sharp shoulder give a better permanent wound cavity in the absence of expansion. At short barrel velocities, in .38 Special anyways and I'm betting also .45 ACP, with hollow points you are likely to get either expansion with poor penetration or penetration with poor expansion. Penetration is preferable to ensure you can reach vital organs. Ball ammo will also get you penetration but is more likely to deflect off bone, etc.

Shooting from in a vehicle: .38 Super was created for the 1911 platform in the 1920's due to .45 ACP having poor penetration of car bodies. I don't think the ballistics have changed that much though I could be wrong.

On lighter bullets I believe @DocGKR has stated none of the 200 grain or less .45 ACP's have displayed adequate performance in a short barrel (I think BehindBlueI's actually asked that but throwing it in).

[corneileous]

@corneileous

There's a couple questions here;

Wadcutters: generally get good penetration even at low velocities and the flat profile and sharp shoulder give a better permanent wound cavity in the absence of expansion. At short barrel velocities, in .38 Special anyways and I'm betting also .45 ACP, with hollow points you are likely to get either expansion with poor penetration or penetration with poor expansion. Penetration is preferable to ensure you can reach vital organs. Ball ammo will also get you penetration but is more likely to deflect off bone, etc.

Shooting from in a vehicle: .38 Super was created for the 1911 platform in the 1920's due to .45 ACP having poor penetration of car bodies. I don't think the ballistics have changed that much though I could be wrong.

On lighter bullets I believe @DocGKR has stated none of the 200 grain or less .45 ACP's have displayed adequate performance in a short barrel (I think BehindBlueI's actually asked that but throwing it in).

I get what you’re saying... short barreled 45 pistol might get good penetration/poor expansion or vice versa, bad penetration/good expansion but how do you or anybody else feel about the short-barreled 230gr HP’s from
Speer and I think Remington makes some as well?


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