Does a short barrel .45 make sense

[revchuck38]

@Borderland - Another possibility is the M&P45. Full capacity mags are ten rounds and IME they recoil less than 1911s with the same ammo. Size-wise they seem to be more adaptable to different hands than the G21.

[deputyG23]

I borrowed a new unfired Shield .45 and a G30 from one of my deputies three years ago and went to the range.
My hands, which are small, preferred the Shield to the G30. If the Shield had another inch of barrel, I would probably bought one. .45 Lawman 230 grain ball chronographed at 698 FPS average from the Shield and my WST handload did 684 avg. My BE-86 handload did 761 fps average which is a service load equivalent handload that yields 890 FPS from my old 5" Kimber.
All that being said, the only .45 in the house that I would ever consider carrying at this time would be my newly acquired HK45 and may do so as soon as I figure out holster(s) and mag pouches.

[Borderland]

One point is you're getting older, and the recoil takes its toll. 9mm and its lower recoil still enables you to shoot more for le$$, get quicker hits, more accurately, with faster follow-ups. A full-size gun with the recoil of 9mm is still more shootable than the same gun with the recoil of .45. If you shoot it better, it's a better tool that improves your odds of surviving. That's been hashed over many times here. And a 10-rd P226 mag doesn't require a ridiculous elephant foot sticking out the bottom of the grip like the USPs.

Because you referenced the P226, I'd encourage you to consider the P220 if you're looking at a .45. It gets you away from the HK trigger issues. The mags are skinny like 1911 mags and hold the same number of rounds as a 1911 or the compact HKs, but I've never read any discussion at all about factory Sig P220 mags having issues. Get 8-rd standard mags mostly. If you want a 10-rd reload, they have those too.

In the HK compact family, a USPc in 9mm or .40 has 10-rd capacity without the elephant's foot, and is reliable and shootable if you figure out a trigger you like.

And yeah, I hear you about the politics. I'd likely plan on retiring an island or two north of you if not for that c.f. It's so frustrating, because a place like Skagit Arms represents so much of the population there. It used to be paradise. I miss the hippies who just wanted to smoke their weed, make their art, and be left alone.

I shoot a P226 very well. My neighbor has one and I've shot it several times. I really like those pistols but I'm going to pass on it because of the mag capacity. I've had two P220's and could never warm up to them. I much prefer a 5" 1911 and I have plenty of those. I've also had a Commander and sold it. Along those lines I have an HK45 which is a very soft shooter. I much prefer that to a P220.

I like your idea about a 9mm USP. I'm going to go down that rabbit hole now.

[Baldanders]

I have been carrying my Kahr cw45 lately.

Craptastic for the first 200 rounds, great since.

Commander-sized and feeds from (some) 1911 mags (I use an 8 round Mec-Gar). All I have done besides run ammo though it is slap on some Talon grips. I love mine.

230 grain Gold Dot expands violently in water from it. I am interested in the newer "short barrel" 230 grain Speer offers now. They had it at SGA last time I checked.

I find 185 grain Gold Dot snappier than the 230 grain, but the 230 Speer tends to run slow in chrony tests.

I find it funny that the G20/G21 is the worst frame of all for many folks, since it seems to be perfect for me.

I have shot a Glock 36, and I felt like it had more felt recoil and muzzle rise than my Kahr, and just didn't fit my paws as well.

[OlongJohnson]

What about the P227? I like the idea, but never shot one. Are they GTG? Hard to tell with current Sigs.

I'm not a fan of the E2 grip concept where it tapers in at the top of the back strap like Homer strangling Bart. Unfortunately, there are zero grip options for the P227 that don't do that. Otherwise, I'd probably have two of them.

I shoot a P226 very well. My neighbor has one and I've shot it several times. I really like those pistols but I'm going to pass on it because of the mag capacity. I've had two P220's and could never warm up to them. I much prefer a 5" 1911 and I have plenty of those. I've also had a Commander and sold it. Along those lines I have an HK45 which is a very soft shooter. I much prefer that to a P220.

I like your idea about a 9mm USP. I'm going to go down that rabbit hole now.

Funny about the USP 9 these days. For the full size gun, there are 10- and 15-round mags. 18 rounds if you go for the "jet funnel" add-on magwell and much more expensive mags. And I think there's like a 30-ish-round mag that's about $100 on a very good day.

For the Compact, there are 10- and 13-round mags, and baseplates for both that come with and without the pinky extension. Thanks to the ongoing support and development of the P30 and VP9, if you add an X-Grip adaptor, there are 15-, 17-, and 20-round mags for the Compact. The 17-rounders end up being pretty reasonable for carry, as the increased length is about equal to the pinky extension on the Compact mags.

[Rex G]

A standard-pressure .45 ACP cartridge, fired from a short barrel, without hearing protection, or with minimal hearing protection, in an enclosed space, seems less concussive than typical 9mm, from a somewhat longer barrel, and, notably less-concussive than .40 S&W. I am simply throwing this out there, as I am aware that this discussion is mostly about terminal effectiveness, but the concussive effect of higher-pressure rounds does seem to intimidate some shooters, firing at indoor ranges, even when they are wearing hearing protection.

The heavier bullets, launched by .45 ACP, .44 Special, and .45 Colt do result in plenty of total push-back, into the shooter’s hand, but the effect is not as intimidating, for some folks, as the sound and fury of some higher-pressure cartridges.

Let’s keep in mind that much of the USA’s population has much better access to indoor shooting ranges, than outdoor ranges.

Once upon a time, in the Eighties, I owned am S&W 25-2 snubbie, and later had a Wilson Combat Sentinel, for a while, in the late Nineties. These are my frame of reference, for short-barreled .45 ACP weapons. (I eventually realized tha N-Frames were not good for my K/L-sized hands, and, the Sentinel did not feed reliably, with its short mags, probably due to a period during which Wilson mags were equipped with defective springs, but I had parted with the Sentinel before sorting that out.)

[awp_101]

I'll jump on the "not worth the squeeze" bandwagon, especially if you have hand and/or wrist issues. I had carpal tunnel surgery about 15 years ago but it still flares if I'm not careful.

I don't remember my G30 being uncomfortable from a recoil standpoint but it just felt weird. The XD-S on the other hand was a different story. Again, it wasn't uncomfortable to shoot but for some reason just a couple mags of garden variety 230gr FMJ left my hands swollen for a couple of days. OTOH my M&P45C doesn't bother my hands and doesn't feel weird.

YMMV...

[Robinson]

A true Commander-length 1911 (4.25" barrel) is all the shorter I am willing to go with the 45 ACP, from both a velocity and reliability standpoint. Also, a Commander still rides okay in an AIWB holster but anything shorter would feel off balance to me.

I'm just now getting back into Commanders after carrying an all steel 5" gun for years, so this conversation is timely for me.

[Trooper224]

No, there's no logical reason for a short barreled. 45, when the 9mm has proven itself to be so effective and adaptable in that role. In fact, given the performance of modern ammunition, there's really no logical need for any other handgun round period in an anti-personnel role. To show it isn't always just about the science, I say this as someone who's currently carrying a .45 auto. So, if you like your big bore snubby and it works for you, then you do you bro. Just don't look for some kind of factual validation for your choice because you won't find it.

[45dotACP]

No, there's no logical reason for a short barreled. 45, when the 9mm has proven itself to be so effective and adaptable in that role. In fact, given the performance of modern ammunition, there's really no logical need for any other handgun round period in an anti-personnel role. To show it isn't always just about the science, I say this as someone who's currently carrying a .45 auto. So, if you like your big bore snubby and it works for you, then you do you bro. Just don't look for some kind of factual validation for your choice because you won't find it.

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