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Thread: Does a short barrel .45 make sense

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    200-grain flying ashtrays may fair better than 230-grain ball (I'm ASSuming that is what you're shooting out of it).
    Good assumption though! Pretty much 230 grain ball or 230 grain Hydroshok or HST. My .45 ACP revolvers with fixed sights are all roughly POA = POI with 230's so I haven't branched out the way I have with other calibers. I probably should see what 200 grains do though as an experiment.

  2. #12
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    They make little sense. But they are fun and I guess that is all the sense something needs, sometimes.

    I think a barrel of about 4" is okay if one chooses ammo carefully, and I have a couple of .45 pistols with barrels as short as 3.75". There are a few short barrel .45 guns that I just like, and whether they make sense is immaterial. If I was going to actually arm myself with one, I agree with what was said above, I would go with a Barnes all copper 185, but then, really, one would normally be better off with a 9 or 40.

    Just my thoughts on the subject as I try to find things to do other than what I am actually supposed to be doing right now.

  3. #13
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    I'll jump on the NO bandwagon, but not because of ballistics. I owned a 3" barreled .45, not a 1911 pattern. It was a well made gun, never gave me trouble. The problem was it was painful to shoot. This particular gun had aggressive checkering on the front and back straps. Combine that with pretty vicious recoil and range sessions became painful quickly. So I didn't really train with it.

    One day I had the "aha moment" that I was carrying, and trusting my life to, a gun I didn't train on. I moved on.

  4. #14
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Doesn't surprise me. But that's because the G21 is HUGE. I suspect the way the grip fits in many folks hands causes it to have some weird in-hand shooting dynamics that make it less pleasant to shoot. The G30 is smaller enough that it negates those issues. I know from personal experience the G21 is the only gun I've ever picked up that is unpleasant to hold in my hand and downright painful to shoot, for the way it stretches my hand in order to grip it. I'd rather fire full-bore magnums through a 2.5" 629 than shoot 100 rounds through a G21.
    That's where the fit of the hand to the grip really matters.

    I'm sure you've read Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner", and one part that I found really interesting was the one about grips. He wrote that they have to be wide enough at the web of the hand to spread the recoil forces over a wider area there but, as you seem to experience with the G21, if they are too wide they can easily become as painful as if they were too narrow and focused the recoil on a small area. The way I remember you describing your hands, the G21 probably recoils straight onto the bones at the base of your thumb and twists in your hand, making it exceedingly unpleasant to shoot. The G30, being as fat as the G21 (at least the Gen 3 version) would likely be near as unpleasant to you.

    In my hands, the G21 is just a bit larger than what I normally handle and spreads the recoil very nicely, making it the softest shooting 45 ACP I have ever shot (the G30, due to its short barrel has a bit more muzzle flip and thus only a little less pleasant). I remember shooting a 1911 with very fat (but very nice) antler stocks so that my palm was very spread out but the web spread on the normal metal part of the 1911. That very weird, to me, grip (fat at the palm and narrow at the web) made it hard to actually hold the gun properly and smacked the web very hard, thus giving me way more recoil than a regular gripped 1911 has ever done.

    There is no "one size fits all" when gripping a gun.
    “An ill-educated person behaves with arrogant impatience, whereas truly profound education breeds humility.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn
    "There are problems in this universe for which there are no answers." Paul Muad'dib

  5. #15
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    Working up different .45 loads for target shooting, I've come to the conclusion that if I had to carry a compact 45. I would look for a factory 200 or 185 grain SWC target load. Similar to using 148 WC in a j-frame. Not saying it's the best solution but would be something that I could see actually practicing with.


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    Last edited by Whirlwind06; 05-28-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  6. #16
    Brass Rat Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    HK45c or USP45c are generally considered GTG. I wouldn't see the point of anything smaller than that.
    I'm considering buying one of those. Not because I don't like 15 rd magazines or 9mm, but because of future restrictions in my state. I see a time in the not too distant future where >10 rd mags will be banned just like CA. I've made an effort in the last few years to buy firearms as tho the restrictions are already here. I just can't fathom having a bunch of legal mags today and illegal mags tomorrow. Whats the point of having a 15 rd P226 when you can't run a 15 rd mag in it? I might as well step on up to a larger bore before I have to sell a bunch of pistols and mags. I have a 9mm carry but it has an 8 rd mag.

    Some may laugh at that idea but I pay attention to the way the political wind blows here in WA and it's been a strong head wind here for about 3 years.

    Or I could just riot in the streets and burn a few government buildings. Referring to the situation in MN.
    Don't dox me bro.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post

    Some may laugh at that idea but I pay attention to the way the political wind blows here in WA and it's been a strong head wind here for about 3 years.

    Or I could just riot in the streets and burn a few government buildings. Referring to the situation in MN.
    Looking how quickly Virginia turned I don't think it's funny at all. Most states seem to one election or mass shooting event away for things to change.

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  8. #18
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I'm considering buying one of those. Not because I don't like 15 rd magazines or 9mm, but because of future restrictions in my state. I see a time in the not too distant future where >10 rd mags will be banned just like CA. I've made an effort in the last few years to buy firearms as tho the restrictions are already here. I just can't fathom having a bunch of legal mags today and illegal mags tomorrow. Whats the point of having a 15 rd P226 when you can't run a 15 rd mag in it? I might as well step on up to a larger bore before I have to sell a bunch of pistols and mags. I have a 9mm carry but it has an 8 rd mag.
    One point is you're getting older, and the recoil takes its toll. 9mm and its lower recoil still enables you to shoot more for le$$, get quicker hits, more accurately, with faster follow-ups. A full-size gun with the recoil of 9mm is still more shootable than the same gun with the recoil of .45. If you shoot it better, it's a better tool that improves your odds of surviving. That's been hashed over many times here. And a 10-rd P226 mag doesn't require a ridiculous elephant foot sticking out the bottom of the grip like the USPs.

    Because you referenced the P226, I'd encourage you to consider the P220 if you're looking at a .45. It gets you away from the HK trigger issues. The mags are skinny like 1911 mags and hold the same number of rounds as a 1911 or the compact HKs, but I've never read any discussion at all about factory Sig P220 mags having issues. Get 8-rd standard mags mostly. If you want a 10-rd reload, they have those too.

    In the HK compact family, a USPc in 9mm or .40 has 10-rd capacity without the elephant's foot, and is reliable and shootable if you figure out a trigger you like.

    And yeah, I hear you about the politics. I'd likely plan on retiring an island or two north of you if not for that c.f. It's so frustrating, because a place like Skagit Arms represents so much of the population there. It used to be paradise. I miss the hippies who just wanted to smoke their weed, make their art, and be left alone.
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  9. #19
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    That's where the fit of the hand to the grip really matters.

    I'm sure you've read Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner", and one part that I found really interesting was the one about grips. He wrote that they have to be wide enough at the web of the hand to spread the recoil forces over a wider area there but...
    As most are aware, Bill was a big man and legendary for even proportionally huge hands. I'm also tall and have fairly long fingers, including thumbs. I can't grip a J frame or even K frame exactly the way some people (like Uncle Jerry, for example) do, because I have too much thumb that I have to find a place to put. My metacarpophalangeal joint is especially prominent and right at the web of the thumb, so I often have issues with the "corner" of a grip. I've tuned up quite a few of them by removing material at that location, essentially skinnying them up, on a bunch of different guns. Slimmed up the Hogue grip on my GP at the top, removing material from both sides to get it to stop hammering that joint.

    So yeah, fit is very personal.
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Because you referenced the P226, I'd encourage you to consider the P220 if you're looking at a .45. It gets you away from the HK trigger issues. The mags are skinny like 1911 mags and hold the same number of rounds as a 1911 or the compact HKs, but I've never read any discussion at all about factory Sig P220 mags having issues. Get 8-rd standard mags mostly. If you want a 10-rd reload, they have those too.
    .
    What about the P227? I like the idea, but never shot one. Are they GTG? Hard to tell with current Sigs.

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