Does a short barrel .45 make sense

[corneileous]

In .45 Auto barrels under 4" or so, I'd also likely choose a Barnes all copper 185 gr +P loading.

So for practicing and range shooting, just the regular ole 230 grain Winchester white box is OK for that?

[COLOR=“#FF0000"]
Synthetic gel YouTube videos are NOT valid terminal performance tests....[/COLOR]

I’m glad you pointed that out as that’s always been kind of a wonder to me but if ballistics gel is not a good way to test then without getting somebody to volunteer and let you shoot them a couple times, what’s the best way to find out which defense ammo will work and what won’t?


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[Trooper224]

So for practicing and range shooting, just the regular ole 230 grain Winchester white box is OK for that?

I’m glad you pointed that out as that’s always been kind of a wonder to me but if ballistics gel is not a good way to test then without getting somebody to volunteer and let you shoot them a couple times, what’s the best way to find out which defense ammo will work and what won’t?

Doc has posted up a list of acceptable ammunition choices on this and other forums. Do a search, find the list and pick something on it. It's really no more complicated than that. He's given you a recommendation on ammo for your shortie .45, if I were you I'd take that as gospel.

Doc's done more legitimate ballistics study than anyone else you're likely to meet.

[Joe in PNG]

Doc has posted up a list of acceptable ammunition choices on this and other forums. Do a search, find the list and pick something on it. It's really no more complicated than that. He's given you a recommendation on ammo for your shortie .45, if I were you I'd take that as gospel.

Doc's done more legitimate ballistics study than anyone else you're likely to meet.

If he's really interested, he need to go and read the stickies in the ammo section. A lot of research and a lot of money has been spent on this.
One thing you see a lot is that the stuff that does well in a proper 4ld ballistics gel test has usually done well in real shootings.

[corneileous]

Doc has posted up a list of acceptable ammunition choices on this and other forums. Do a search, find the list and pick something on it. It's really no more complicated than that. He's given you a recommendation on ammo for your shortie .45, if I were you I'd take that as gospel.

Doc's done more legitimate ballistics study than anyone else you're likely to meet.

Well I guess I’ll have to wait until this COVID and rioting craps over because I can’t find any online store that sells any of that. I did find those Buffalo Bore Barnes rounds but over 40 bucks a box and 30 bucks to ship two boxes- I think I’ll pass for now.


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[45dotACP]

I think the most important thing in Doc's sticky is that it's much more beneficial to seek qualified training, practice with your carry gun and cultivate a warrior mindset.

It's fine to get into the weeds on a technical issue, just try not to miss the forest for the trees.

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[Caballoflaco]

I’m glad you pointed that out as that’s always been kind of a wonder to me but if ballistics gel is not a good way to test then without getting somebody to volunteer and let you shoot them a couple times, what’s the best way to find out which defense ammo will work and what won’t?
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There are different types of ballistics gel. What doc is referring to are the synthetic clear ballistics gelatin products.

Proper ballistics gel is 10% ordnance gelatin that is made from the skin bones and connective tissue of animals. It is then prepared and stored in a controlled and prescribed manner. When testing it has to be within a specified temperature range and the density is calculated by measuring the penetration of a bb fired into the block. As noted above when the proper protocols are followed bullets that perform well in specific gelatin tests also perform well in real world shootings.

All Clear or synthetic ballistics gel is garbage for actual testing because it does not react to gullet strikes in the same way that the organic properly prepared gelatin does.

Pretty much all gel tests on YouTube are garbage no matter what type of gelatin they’re using becasue we don’t know what protocols they are using, as far as temperature, calibration etc.

[Whirlwind06]

Well I guess I’ll have to wait until this COVID and rioting craps over because I can’t find any online store that sells any of that. I did find those Buffalo Bore Barnes rounds but over 40 bucks a box and 30 bucks to ship two boxes- I think I’ll pass for now.


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And there is the rub...

That's why most folks are carrying 9mm with known good SD ammo that's much more available and cheap enough that you can run a hundred rounds through your carry gun.



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[corneileous]

And there is the rub...

That's why most folks are carrying 9mm with known good SD ammo that's much more available and cheap enough that you can run a hundred rounds through your carry gun.



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My guess was that stuff like that isn’t as well-known as what I have been using.

But well, probably if I would’ve known then what I know now, I more than likely would have gone with the 9mm XDE but I don’t think the 45 version is a total flop. I did pick me up a couple of boxes of Speer Gold Dot short-barrel 230-gr 45’s for a decent price to try out. Thanks for everybody’s advice.


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[Bucky]

So how much velocity is lost with 230 grain ammo as the barrel gets shorter? Well, let’s see....

I thought this would be an interesting project for my morning range time.

Ammo 230 grain Speer Gold Dot standard velocity.

Gun / Barrel length. Muzzle velocity. 11 Yard Velocity.

Caspian 1911 5”, 897, 886

Glock 21 4.25, 851, 840

Glock 30, 3.78, 816, 808

DW ECO 3.5, 819, 808

XDS 3”, 796, 786

Seems like a consistent and steady drop, up to 100 FPS. I thought perhaps the ECO would have gotten closer to the G21 with its, arguably, “better” barrel, but that just isn’t the case. I have seen in 9mm where a shorter barrel will outrun a longer barrel, especially in the heavier loads, but certainly not the case here.


For what it’s worth.

[Lester Polfus]

Well I guess I’ll have to wait until this COVID and rioting craps over because I can’t find any online store that sells any of that. I did find those Buffalo Bore Barnes rounds but over 40 bucks a box and 30 bucks to ship two boxes- I think I’ll pass for now.


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I generate this search by inputing the following search criteria: .45 ACP, 185 grain weight, and the text string "TAC."

There may be other instances of loads with the 185 grain Barnes bullet where the seller doesn't list them with the "Tac" nomenclature, but I didn't have the time or motivation to search through pages of search results.

I would rather slam my balls in a car door than get involved in a prolonged 9mm vs .45 debate, I would offer two observations:

1) While it certainly has some merit as a "woods cartridge" for folks that want to carry a field pistol (see GJM's thread on the USP 45) I'm not sure it is the best choice for a 3" barreled urban/suburban carry pistol.

2) .45 ACP seems to sit in a sweet spot where it is widely produced, but not the first thing to go out the door during an ammo buying panic, so there's that.