RFI: Engagement rings

[vcdgrips]

I used to sell jewelry (etc.) at Macy's in high school/college and at Kreigels/Hannoush (regional chain store) while in law school. I looked at 40 stones before buying the one I bought. You have been given good info re educating yourself re Cut, Clarity, Color and Carat Weight. I offer the following:


Executive Summary-the easy choice is Costco or a local multi generational family owned store with an excellent reputation.


Costco is knocking it out of the park re the quality/value intersection. They are also a leader in selling rings that have been set with a stone in the center surrounded by much smaller stones surrounding the center stone such that the ring looks like a much larger solitaire from just a few feet and beyond. i.e. the center stone is .82 carats, the surrounding stones make it look like at 1.25 carat ring. The Costco ring is 3000. Any decent 1.25 carat solitaire would be 2.5 or 3x that all day long.


A locally owned family stone often carries a certain panache that can have real value to your wife. The panache can extend outside of the local area. One three separate occasions when my then wife was traveling to Las Vegas, Chicago and New Orleans, she had her ring cleaned at a local store. When asked where she was from, she said KC. The jewelers then asked if the ring was purchased in KC, she says yes. They then ask, "is this ring from Tivol?" Tivol has a national reputation in the trade and simply does not buy poorly cut stones. Tivol is one of the oldest family run stores in KC and Tivol grand kids are now in the sales force.


Another sure bet is Tiffany's. You will overpay relative to the other two choices but there is an undeniable snap of the blue box. Tiffany jewelry is a lot like Rolex. Superlative in quality and the price reflects that.


1. Do not buy anywhere that you cannot get a full refund are at least a full in store credit.

a. She could say no
b. She could change her mind
c. You could change your mind
d. Another ring could come on the scene
e. She might not like the ring

2. Find out what she wants re shape and setting

3. Put your money in cut first and color second. A well cut, whiter stone ( G or better). By analogy, well tailored suit looks better than a less tailored one, This is often true even when the less tailored suit is of better fabric. Cut is everything. I would buy a well cut 1.0-1.2 carat stone with decent color way before a 1.5 carat stone that was not as well cut or white at the same price point.

4. Do not forget to call your insurance company and have it "separately" scheduled and covered for all hazards to include lost, damaged and mysterious disappearance. Most standard insurance policies cover relatively small amounts re jewelry, subject to your deductible and do not cover all hazards.

5. Unless it is an heirloom, there is always another stone out there.

6. I would ask about a cash discount. By definition it should be at least 3% as that is what a credit card company would be charging the store to process the payment.


It is always possible to find well cut, quality stones from a pawn shop, chain store etc. In my opinion and experience, it is simply much easier to do so at the places outlined above, stone for stone, day in day out absent some kind of association you have to a decision maker at a pawn shop.

[rkittine]

I have bought many diamonds direct from Cutters in the Manhattan Diamond district and then just had them set. Always then have the certified and serial numbered by GIF.

Of the 4 "C", Carat Weight, Cut, Clarity and Color, I would always spend more on Color as that is what most people will see when they look at your ladies hand. No real need to pay thousands more for a higher clarity that can only be told by a 10X or 20X loop. Don't think your friends will grab you ladies hand, put a loop on and check that. Color Grades of D, E and F are usually considered to be engagement ring quality, though in some case G will look OK. I, J and K can be ok for diamonds of 1 carat or less

What is usually the most expensive cut is the Brilliant Cut for a round stone. It is also the most expensive cut, the reason being that to get a round stone with reasonable clarity, there may have to be areas cut off that otherwise would allow more diamond weight in say a heart shape , or oval diamond where they can cut around the flaws and keep more of the total weight.

I prefer Brilliant cut with at least 58 facets. You can get a round ring cut will much less and have one that will actually look bigger in normal view as it will be shallower and have less hidden in the setting.

When it comes to weight, let your budget be your guide. A 1 carat ring that has lower color, lower clarity, not round etc. might be pretty inexpensive where a 1 Carat D Color Brilliant Cut Round Stone that is IF (Internally Flawless) might cost $50,000.

Enjoy shopping, Bob

[Wise_A]

One thing: my wife is a more cheaper bastard than me, but make no mistake; if I came back with a rock less than 1 caret, it would've been ugly. Broad judgmental strokes I know, but we are talking about women.

If you get down on one knee, ask to marry me, and then open a box with a Taurus G2 inside, I'm going to kick you in the teeth.

[Duces Tecum]

The main stone is more important than the setting. You know this, but it's important to re-state it. We'll be discussing only the center stone of a finger ring. Earrings typically carry stones of lower quality.

The diamond market is soft right now. That means two things: (a) it's a good time to buy, and (b) if you buy from a sidewalk dealer (don't laugh, people have bought fine stones from cutters or dealers met at the bourse, and been mostly happy with the results) he will try very hard to get as much for the stone as he can squeeze from you. He doesn't know when he might sell another, and you are right there before him.

One way for a not-in-the-trade buyer to purchase a diamond is to examine and compare prices among the on-line dealers. These are more likely than the sidewalk dealers to price their wares competitively. One of the possible sites is https://www.bluenile.com/diamonds. I'm not necessarily recommending Blue Nile to the exclusion of other sites: it is offered as a sample only.

If a person wished a diamond to maintain as much of it's price as possible, a relatively rare stone must be bought. As others have mentioned, the filters of scarcity are color, clarity, size, and cut. For example, the highest color is "D" (colorless). The highest clarity is "IF" (internally flawless). There are 100 points in each caret, and the rarest diamonds weigh multiples of 100 points. A stone weighing exactly 1 carat will cost more (due to scarcity) than a stone of .98 carats (98 points) or of 102 points. The cutter knows this, and tries very hard to cut stones that will sell for high dollars. That's why "cut" is the fourth measure of scarcity. A poor cut will impact the value of a stone, even one exactly on the point line. There are, however, brands that are associated with precision cuts. "Hearts and Arrows" is one example. Another is the "Ideal" cut.

A fifth scarcity check is fluorescence. About one in four diamonds will show color under ultra-violet light, so it's not rare, and neither is it a grading factor. But a non-fluorescing diamond might sell for more. The biggest stone Mrs. Tecum has fluoresces.

Not all quality filters are equally important. The most important are the ones hardest to change. Color and clarity are more important than size and cut. A stone can be re-cut, but it's much harder to change color or clarity.

As a practical matter, my wife's diamonds are beneath investment grade, but within the parameters of gem quality. I like her diamonds to be F/G on the color scale and have a clarity of VVS1 or VVS2. I don't want to pay the premium for a stone exactly on the carat line. I expect a good cut. Regardless of the other qualities, a stone lacking a good cut will have no life. Each center stone has been accompanied by a GIA certificate. A reference is https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/diamond-buying-guide/

There is also the possibility of contacting Tiffany and asking about quality of stones they offer
https://www.tiffany.com/engagement/t...e-to-diamonds/ and matching it on-line.

All of that said, things happen. Several years ago we were offered earrings from a jeweler I'd known for quite a while. His wife wanted a piano and he had to sell that pair of her earrings to afford it. The earrings had large rose cut diamonds hanging beneath an arc of old mine cut diamonds. They were astonishingly beautiful, if you're into that sort of thing. Trouble was, the rose cuts were not cut exactly the same. They were two similar earrings, but not quite a pair. I bought them anyway, and they've become her favorite diamond earrings.

[TheRoland]

I'll also mention that for the 10k upper end of your price tag, you could buy a 5k ring and a pretty nice Omega or Tag. Or, a ring, and his and her's Sinn watches.

Just since you mentioned watches.

[Dan_S]

This is all great info from the brain trust.

I'll also mention that for the 10k upper end of your price tag, you could buy a 5k ring and a pretty nice Omega or Tag. Or, a ring, and his and her's Sinn watches.

Just since you mentioned watches.

Lemme put it this way - I don’t spend money on myself, well, except when I do... (NFA items are fun...equipment are tools...)

I’d buy her a ring and a watch, though. She likes watches. For me, it’d be a waste as I’ve come to realize I actually dislike wearing a watch, and therefore wouldn’t wear an expensive watch even if I had one, especially considering that when one is covered in grease, diesel, wood chips, and sweat, an expensive watch would be rather...pointless, for me.


Here would be some examples of the style she likes - the middle one, meh.

[rkittine]

Much nicer than a Cigar Wrapper Ring ...........

[vcdgrips]

All of those depicted rings are likely to bust your 10k budget. Bling for buck would be to go for the diamond wedding/anniversary band v. the solitaire in that a band with ten .20ct stones for a total carat weight of 2 ct is going to likely be far cheaper than a 2ct solitaire.

Let’s talk turkey-

What does she do for a living i.e works with her hands such that a closer fitting band makes more sense?

Is peer/family pressure in play?

Absent her being extremely petite, 1 ct (or 1 ct looking) would be the smallest solitaire I would be looking at presuming the budget is there and yours is.

Resist any urge to buy size at the significant expense of cut, color and to a lesser extent, clarity.

Circa 1992, I cannot tell you how many times I sold a 1 ct round that was about a K in color with naked eye visible inclusions at 2k ish because it had to be a 1 ct stone come hell or high water.

He could have bought a 2ct band in white gold at 1/2 the price with G/Naked eye clean stones (SI 2 or better in my mind/eyes) and been much happier.

[Dan_S]

@vdcgrips

PM sent.

[Darth_Uno]

Why not lab-made? It looks the same. It sparkles the same. I'd assume it smells the same. It is, quite literally, the exact same. It's compressed carbon. They just made it indoors instead of paying African kids 40 cents a day to dig it out of the ground.