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Thread: General Holosun pistol optic thread

  1. #1001
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    The Vortex defender is not in the same league as the Holosun open emitters. They have refresh rate issues that make shooting less intuitive because you can actually see the dot flicker.
    Vortex has confirmed an inline change to the product line that addresses the refresh rate issue and removes the flicker, due to user feedback.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    Vortex has confirmed an inline change to the product line that addresses the refresh rate issue and removes the flicker, due to user feedback.
    Nice. Glad to hear that.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    Holosun has probably already deconstructed the auto adjust in the RMR HD.
    I don't necessarily buy into a notion that Chinese need to deconstruct or steal US tech, not in the context of RDS. Feature sets that they have made available on their dots were ahead of that US or Western companies offer, and many are still not available on Trij or Aimpoint etc.
    I prefer to buy US made but I'll buy what's the best for the intended role. SRO is my go to gaming optic but I have no interest in RMR HD. No 5-6 MOA dot, takes more space on the slide, glass closer to ejection port, access to battery suboptimal, and I don't even use auto adjust.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  4. #1004
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I don't necessarily buy into a notion that Chinese need to deconstruct or steal US tech, not in the context of RDS. Feature sets that they have made available on their dots were ahead of that US or Western companies offer, and many are still not available on Trij or Aimpoint etc.
    I prefer to buy US made but I'll buy what's the best for the intended role. SRO is my go to gaming optic but I have no interest in RMR HD. No 5-6 MOA dot, takes more space on the slide, glass closer to ejection port, access to battery suboptimal, and I don't even use auto adjust.
    I have a lot of the same problems with footprint and design of the RMR HD and wouldn't really buy one. I'm more using it as an example of an American optic that has actually surpassed Holosun in one area. On not using auto adjust, I think a lot of us don't use it because it's never worked right. If it does work right and presents you with the right brightness level in any lighting situation, that trend will change in a hurry. A lot of us won't be exposed to a superior auto adjust right now because the RMR HD costs a healthy kidney, so we have to take it from reviews that it really has been solved. That is something that has been consistent in the reviews of the RMR HD. Holosun will probably present this technology in an affordable format pretty soon. Vortex will have it in their red dots in 2030 going by their release schedule.
    As I type this, it's odd that I have a hard time with red dot costs when I own 2 rifle scopes that cost over $1000 each.

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyPossum View Post
    I’d like to clarify my earlier comment. It’s not that I entirely don’t care that buying Holosun products and providing feedback to the company directly helps China’s military. It’s not my preference. The problem is many of Holosun’s products don’t have direct competitors from US or friendly foreign companies. Want an enclosed emitter optic that directly mounts to the footprint most common in micro compact guns? Holosun is the only game in town with the EPS Carry. If you’ve got the other really popular footprint, the RMSc, the EPS Carry comes with a shim plate. Want a truly simple product for the non-enthusiast shooter with an optic that directly mounts to whatever optic cut your gun has and doesn’t need to be adjusted for brightness or have battery maintenance issues? Holosun is the only game in town with the SCS series. Basically mount, zero, and forget. There seems to be a decent amount of variety in optics that are geared towards competition with Trijicon, Sig, and Holosun producing products but it still sounds like the 507 Comp might be the best one. I’m happy that there are US and friendly competitors for closed emitter optics meant for duty use with the ACRO, MPS, RCR, and the closed emitter Sig M17 optic but the 509T is still a great product with arguably the strongest mounting system available. Holosun seems to read the consumer market better than most of its competitors and is innovating faster than they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin View Post
    I typically stay out of this subject because I've grown to dislike discussing politics online, but, one salient point that I think specifically applies to Chinese optics is: Trijicon and Leupold do not deserve my business simply by virtue of where they happen to be located. They have to earn it by providing a quality, competitive product. If we were all to only buy from them based on nation of origin alone, they would be much less incentivized to develop products to compete with the Chinese company that's running laps around them when it comes to innovation.

    As a specific case in point, Trijicon needs to understand that its decision to use a proprietary footprint for the RMRcc was completely daft. They get that message by watching people buy K series optics (and watching manufacturers do factory K cuts on compact guns in response). That's not to mention the already stated point that the EPS Carry is just hands down the best micro optic on the market, and also doesn't look like it's going to be surpassed except by a new Holosun offering.
    This was where I fell on it. I get it, I don't like funneling money to Chinese based companies and anyone that's spent more than about a week in the gun world knows where Holosun comes from. That said, Leupold wasn't exactly knocking it out of the park and my budget is focused on, what I consider, more important things than buying gun stuff. I'm not exactly at a point where I can drop Trijicon RMR HD and Aimpoint Acro money for the pistols I've got that are going to have dots on them with the features I'd like (the circle dot reticle seems to work a lot better for me than just a dot at this point in my dot journey, so that further limits the options) just on a whim.

    I completely understand wanting to buy American and encouraging it. That said, in the firearms industry, I think there would be a lot of pearl clutching if people saw behind the curtain and where a lot of "high end" stuff is either currently OEM'd or has been OEM'd in the past. High end and "Made in America" companies sourcing stuff from India, China, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico, etc., etc. was not uncommon. Additionally, there are only so many places that are making emitters for the red dot world so there's another limitation to the "Just buy an American made dot," argument.

    And, to be honest, having people like this Vermillion China guy, Tasker, and Vdev equivocating buying a Holosun with some sort of treasonous activity is just as tiresome as the other right wing garbage and hyperbole that I've almost completely tuned out of and why, outside of this forum, I've pretty much stopped paying attention entirely to the Gunternet.
    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
    Disclaimer: I have previously worked in the firearms industry as an engineer. Thoughts and opinions expressed here are mine alone and not those of my prior employers.

  6. #1006
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    I think the question can be summarized into a simple ethical dilemma:
    Holosun currently has the best red dot technology overall (debatable, but let's go with it), but has direct ties to the Chinese government and their R&D benefits the military of said government directly. The American shooting community's direct feedback greatly accelerates product improvement far beyond what could happen in that country alone.
    There are American or American ally made optics that are durable for serious use, but lag behind Holosun in some key areas that are important for shooters choosing their optics. One of the most important is cost, something that I think shooters get gaslit on quite a bit in this community.
    Capitalism says the smart buy is Holosun.
    Patriotism says the only buy is Trijicon, Aimpoint, or Steiner.
    Capitalism produces prosperity better than any other system of trade overall, and competition makes everything better. Another point worth noting is that the PRC isn't getting better optics than we do out of this deal, they are getting the same optics we get access to.
    I don't agree that the phone analogy is a false equivalency. If someone spun up a US factory to produce the equivalent of the best Chinese produced smartphone, and it cost $5000, people are still going to gravitate towards the Chinese made smartphone because only a very small percentage of the population can afford to pay extravagant prices in the name of ideology.
    It seems to me this battle has to be fought at the ballot box to reverse the insanity that causes this problem to begin with. Picking and choosing what products you take a stand on feels like tail chasing and smelling your own farts.
    I'm struggling with the answer on if buying Chinese produced optics from Vortex is a workaround if they catch up with Holosun in the next couple of years. Vortex is an American company through and through. PA can fall into this category too. Swampfox is no better than Holosun, they are owned by the Chinese OEM and put on a "'Merica!" front with their funding and hiring.
    Last edited by stomridertx; 03-28-2024 at 11:40 AM.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar_d View Post
    I've almost completely tuned out of and why, outside of this forum, I've pretty much stopped paying attention entirely to the Gunternet.
    This is kinda of been my mentality for a little while. It’s refreshing tuning out all the BS. Hahaha

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVP View Post
    This is kinda of been my mentality for a little while. It’s refreshing tuning out all the BS. Hahaha
    Yup. For over over a decade I checked numerous gun blogs daily (from Soldier Systems to TFB to Ammoland to The Shooting Wire), was on several forums, listened to a whole bunch of podcast (was a devoted P&S listener), read countless gun books (from Chinn and Hatcher to design guides from Rheinmetall) and a whole bunch of other gun nerd stuff.

    Then, the last day I badged out of a firearms manufacturing facility, I just checked out and didn’t give a damn about any of it anymore. There was definitely a weight lifted off my shoulders.
    Last edited by ragnar_d; 03-28-2024 at 04:50 PM.
    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
    Disclaimer: I have previously worked in the firearms industry as an engineer. Thoughts and opinions expressed here are mine alone and not those of my prior employers.

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