Minneapolis PD Suspect Dies On Video While Handcuffed. FBI Investigating.

[Nightvisionary]

I am appalled by the lack of Social Distancing shown in this video.

[Lon]

Coming from a very ignorant understanding (and i apologise for my ignorance in advance) - I am just wondering - if the officer kneeling on the suspects neck was a superior officer, what should have the other officers done in this scenario?

At what time is someone supposed to go against or pull up their superior officer, and how does someone go about doing that? Especially if the superior was unwilling to change their action or had just given the others a rip recently for not backing him? (I'm not saying that's the scenario - just trying to gain an understanding of how other junior police are supposed to respond in a situation like this)?

I am coming from an ignorant position - but from this ignorant position - it almost seems like you're damned if you do / damned if you don't if your a junior and your senior does something like this?

Almost every police use of force policy I have ever looked at has a policy about a duty to intervene in a situation like this. None of them have ever included “unless he’s a superior officer”.

[Dr_Thanatos]

OK I get it. I get why "clip" is aggravating too. My MA years were in the '90's and the LEO's in my school used that terminology as well.

"According to Dr. Charlie, the rear naked choke is a “so-called blood choke ([one of] those that impede blood flow from the heart to the brain),” as opposed to an “asphyxia choke (those that obstruct airflow, commonly by way of windpipe compression).”

Both types of "choke-hold's" result in asphyxial death. Preventing air from entering the lung such as from smothering, choking or compressing the trachea is a variant of asphyxia. Preventing blood from getting to the brain by compression of the jugular veins or carotid arteries is also asphyxia. Equally, removing oxygen from the environment and replacing it with a different gas, a liquid or a solid is an asphyxial death. Additionally, putting a person in a position where they cannot expand their lungs and move air is a different type of asphyxia. There are a lot of subclassifications, and different words have different meanings. Choking is when a foreign body, frequently food, obstructs the larynx or trachea. It has nothing to do with external compression of the neck. It can cause a lot of difficulties, because most people don't separate the words and then the two parties are talking about different things.

Asphyxial deaths can be very difficult to diagnose. It is likely that the ME is not going to release their report until they have seen every available video of the incident. Different perspectives can absolutely refute or assist with the diagnosis. And various ME offices have different relationships with their investigating agencies. Some better than others. We have a great relationship with our PD, and the last time I did this it took weeks to get all the video, and another month for me to watch it all. Hennepin has a great ME office, I have no doubts that they will handle their part of the investigation as completely as possible.

[Crawls]

It's not contradictory if the knee isn't occluding the airway.

Excited delirium/positional asphyxiation he likely would have died if left on his stomach without anybody touching him. He might have died if he'd had no interaction with the police at all, but a seated position is safer then a prone position for someone who's body is already taxed to the point the cardio-vascular muscles are right on the ragged edge of not being able to work any longer. Simply put, the easier to breathe the better and sitting doesn't make you move your body weight up with each breath.

It's still contradictory. The knee doesn't need to be occluding the airway to induce positional asphyxia. The author states that "..this man was not suffocated by the officer's knee on the suspect's neck" Not sure I buy that. If the officers had merely sat the guy up, this could have had a far different outcome. Even if the suspects condition had continued to deteriorate there wouldn't have been the negative video footage.
This is a bad situation for all involved except for the media and the lawyers who are going to squeeze it for every penny they can.

[Erick Gelhaus]

None of the videos I've seen so far, all of which depict an event on the passenger side of the patrol SUV with a prone black male adult, show anything resembling a carotid restraint. They do show a knee on the neck.

The MPD use of force policy is here:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-300_5-300

If you read it, sections 5-311 and 5-316 may be of interest.

One video I saw this morning, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGCFHQ4yfdg includes an exchange at 2:41:
Q - "Y'all could put him in the car."
A - "We tried that for ten minutes."

I would not make any claims about that excusing any perceived failure to get medical attention, it might explain what led up to that point.

Someone, @Crawls, wrote about contradictory statements in the article I shared. Respectfully disagree. If the knee on the neck didn't block, collapse, etc the airway, then that may not have been the cause. What else was going on with the male and other officers not shown in those videos? If a protracted struggle took place before the videos shown so far started that might well explain how the male ended up cuffed and prone with multiple officers on him. That combination could be what led to an excited delirium death.

[Warped Mindless]

I haven't been keeping up with the news much lately so I have a question: have the rioters destroyed all the businesses in their own neighborhood yet? If so, are they already complaining that new businesses refuse to "come serve them" yet?

[Dr_Thanatos]

It takes 4.4lb of pressure to compress the jugular veins, 8.8 lbs for the carotid arteries, 33 lbs for the trachea, and 66 lbs for the vertebral arteries. Your head weighs about 5 lbs by reference.

Consistent pressure to the posterior/lateral portion of the neck is mostly unimportant, it's just a lot of muscle. Anterior/lateral contains the carotids/jugular complex, which at the correct height also includes the carotid bodies, a pair of vasoreceptors that continuously monitor blood pressure and change cardiac output accordingly. Pressure to the carotid bodies may have variable effects, including symptomatic bradycardia which can rapidly deteriorate.


So, to be fair, while pressure to the side of the neck may not be a great way to compress the trachea (assuming normal anatomy, which isn't always the case), it is an acceptable way to asphyxiate someone, or to cause a sudden cardiac arrhythmia.

[Lex Luthier]

That is really useful information for us laypeople, @Dr_Thanatos. Thank you.

Just for reference, here is a just-released public statement by Chief Todd Axtell of the Saint Paul Police Department.

(He's usually pretty circumspect about police matters on the other side of the Mississippi.)

“A time for reflection”

"It has been a difficult few days for all of us. Like you, I’ve been shocked, disgusted, angry and grieving. I’ve also taken some time to collect my thoughts and make sure I’ve addressed this issue with your police officers (the SPPD) before talking about it publicly.
Now I want you to know where I stand.

The video of a man being arrested across the river is beyond disturbing. The situation can only be described as a tragedy in every sense of the word.

I’m also using this as an opportunity to do some soul searching, and I’ve asked our officers to join me in doing the same.

I often say that being a police officer is a calling, and those who answer do so because they want to help people. At the SPPD, we look for people who, at a minimum, possess these qualities: integrity, respect for all, compassion and empathy. These are the building blocks on which trust, community safety and professional fulfillment are built. And they are non-negotiable.

They also need to be maintained. Today I asked all SPPD officers to check in on themselves.

Something went horribly wrong at the intersection of 38th and Chicago, and everyone in law enforcement owes it to themselves, their coworkers, their city and the people they serve to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

So today I asked every SPPD police officer to watch the horrible video and do something different. I asked them to put themselves in George Floyd’s shoes.

I asked them to imagine they are on the ground and cannot breathe. Imagine that their only option is to turn to a police officer for help. Imagine the pain, fear and desperation. Then think about how their families would feel later, watching such a video of them, beneath the knee of an officer, with no hope.

Then I asked them to put themselves in the shoes of the officers, the bystanders, the community members we serve who are now forced to confront this tragedy.

As painful as this is, it’s something we, as law enforcement professionals, must do. Because when we lose our integrity, respect for all, compassion and empathy – when we stop seeing people and only see problems – we lose everything that is good about our profession.

Finally, I challenged our officers to ask themselves if they would have done anything differently from what the officers did in the video.

If the answer is no, I told them to reconsider their career choice.

Integrity. Respect for all. Compassion. Empathy.

These qualities are non-negotiable – as law enforcement professionals and as human beings.

I know that the job is difficult. I know that the vast majority of the time officers do what is right. But I also know that if we don't check ourselves, we run the risk of losing touch with humanity. And then we have lost everything.

I’m praying for Mr. Floyd, his family, our community and our police officers and I’m committed to doing everything possible to make sure we never again see another tragedy like this."

[BehindBlueI's]

It's still contradictory. The knee doesn't need to be occluding the airway to induce positional asphyxia. The author states that "..this man was not suffocated by the officer's knee on the suspect's neck" Not sure I buy that. If the officers had merely sat the guy up, this could have had a far different outcome. Even

Yeah, maybe. Something I already included and why it's not contradictory.

What would happen if the knee were removed but the suspect was left prone? Does he die anyway? I know with certainty that it happens sometimes. That question is why it's not contradictory.

[willie]

A juvenile facility where I worked had an incident where employees killed a kid by using an improper restraint. Weight of employee on kid's back prevented breathing. This instance involved a muscular 16 year old who went nuts. Restraining required three adults. Accidental. Poorly trained employees. White kid. This made local news. Had it been a minority kid, the story would have gone world wide.