Minneapolis PD Suspect Dies On Video While Handcuffed. FBI Investigating.

[Spartan1980]

Locally we're seeing an investigation of batons used sideways to push a crowd back (as trained) to give medics room to work and of pepper-balling individuals throwing bottles at officers.

We're also throwing the same officers into the grinder over and over again and expecting them to perform the same as they would rested.

The highlighted part just pisses me off to no end. It's happening all over I'm sure. I'm not and never have been LEO but have several family members who were and are. I'm trying to get one to cross over to FD as he's young enough. But he's worked hard to include a Masters Degree to get in. Understandable that it's kind of hard to just throw that away.

As a comical aside, I have a buddy on SWAT here. He posted up on FB last night that they had a couple kids threatening....threatening to throw donuts at them. It was kind of funny at the moment.

[HCM]

@HCM

We can agree to disagree, and I have absolutely no issue with that...but whether the person is, or was, an "agitator", for which there is no standard definition, in itself would not dictate whether an action taken against the person was justified or not. Just as whether George Floyd was guilty of a violation of law or not, would not justify certain actions being taken once he was in custody.

It's a matter of degree...and I realize it's open to interpretation and review. And should be.

In criowd / riot control “agitators” are people who enourage or direct other to either defy lawful orders to disperse or engage in violence and property damage.

In this case the suspect who fell was directing others to defy lawful orders to disperse and moved to confront police after being told multiple times to disperse.

In this case the victims are those who got mislead by a small clip of video taken out of context.

[Borderland]

I'd have little argument with that point of view. My family came from very humble origins and I know how hard they worked to achieve middle class. And while we were technically minorities, we weren't black, so I can't speak directly to how much more difficult that can make the journey, though I am not completely ignorant of it either, having grown up in mixed racial communities.

I think there is a lot more opportunity "now", as opposed to "then", but clearly there will always be "have-nots" under the current economic system. (That status should not be racially defined.) All we can do is try to raise the standard of living, (including health), to something reasonable with which, and under which, the suffering is at least greatly diminished if not eradicated.

I have to agree with that. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I came from an extremely impoverished neighborhood. When my wife saw the area in 2015 where I grew up she was shocked. I told her it was better when I lived there but not by much. The average income there today is half what the nat'l average is. It would be easy for anyone to say (I think I even said it but I was wrong) that it was race or culture because the area is predominately Hispanic being on the border. That hasn't changed in 75 years so I don't expect it to change anytime soon. Most of those people are Americans just like me although they're ancestry is Hispanic, whatever that means. We have determined that the genetic makeup of Hispanic/Latino individuals vary between and within communities. I'm sure some of them don't identify racially as Hispanic anymore because that separates them into categories or classes for political purposes. Some of them would rather not be associated with that because I knew a few who rejected it. The truth is that some of their families were in this country before TX, CA, NM or AZ ever became largely populated by whites. So that would probably make them native Americans but that doesn't fit the mold either.

I left the area after high school because I saw the dead end sign, but I know people who I went to HS with that still live there.

All we have left is American citizens for any social or economic benefits that we wish to deliver. None of that should be based on race or ethnic background.

[HCM]

There were probably better ways for the cops to get him out of the way. So much here, though.

An “old man.” Younger than Biden.

He refused to social distance from the cops. Attempted murder of the cops’ grandparents?

Black mayor characterizes peaceful white protestor as an “agitator.” Old white lives matter? Except for the cops’ grandparents?

Will need some help from the medics and cops with this one. The old man managed to hold onto his cell phone after his head was jolted sufficiently from hitting the pavement as to cause him to bleed from the ear.

This has nothing to do with social distancing. This individual has been known in the area as a protestor for left-wing causes for decades. However, that is not why he is described as an agitator.

The mayor, who is no great fan of LE himself, described that subject as an agitator because he was actively directing and encouraging the crowd to refuse lawful police orders to disperse. When the crowd started to disperse anyway he knowingly and intentionally approached the police to confront them. Whether he thought he could confront the police with impunity due to his age or thinking he was a special snowflake, or whether he was intentionally trying to create a situation similar to what occurred I can’t say. What I can say is that what happened to the man is a direct result of what he, himself did and what he failed to do.

There is nothing ironic about a black mayor declaring a white protester and agitator. In fact much of the violence and destruction that we’ve seen has been the result of predominantly white left-wing groups acting in the name of BLM.

Hell, in the McAllen, TX chainsaw incident you have a Hispanic business owners chasing off a bunch of whites who claim to be protesting on behalf of BLM with nary a black person in sight. This is not really about race at this point.

[peterb]

For the veteran LEOs: Have you seen examples of a good police/community working relationship in a poor/minority neighborhood? What made it work? What made it break down?

[Kanye Wyoming]

This has nothing to do with social distancing. This individual has been known in the area as a protestor for left-wing causes for decades. However, that is not why he is described as an agitator.

The mayor, who is no great fan of LE himself, described that subject as an agitator because he was actively directing and encouraging the crowd to refuse lawful police orders to disperse. When the crowd started to disperse anyway he knowingly and intentionally approached the police to confront them. Whether he thought he could confront the police with impunity due to his age or thinking he was a special snowflake, or whether he was intentionally trying to create a situation similar to what occurred I can’t say. What I can say is that what happened to the man is a direct result of what he, himself did and what he failed to do.

There is nothing ironic about a black mayor declaring a white protester and agitator. In fact much of the violence and destruction that we’ve seen has been the result of predominantly white left-wing groups acting in the name of BLM.

Hell, in the McAllen, TX chainsaw incident you have a Hispanic business owners chasing off a bunch of whites who claim to be protesting on behalf of BLM with nary a black person in sight. This is not really about race at this point.

I was being facetiously naughty. Or naughtily facetious.

[BehindBlueI's]

For the veteran LEOs: Have you seen examples of a good police/community working relationship in a poor/minority neighborhood? What made it work? What made it break down?

Absolutely. About to start another 12 hour shift so don't have a lot of time for detail, but there's a good book by D. Kennedy called "Don't Shoot" that details some very successful efforts.

In a nutshell, I tell my rookies to be problem solvers. See what the citizenry of your beat wants and do that. If it's a high crash intersection, run traffic. If it's a nuisance house causing drug/vice related issues, focus on that house. If it's thefts or murders, whatever, work to solve that beat's problems. Not the world's, not the district's, that beat. Communicate. Be responsive.

[Wondering Beard]

That sure helps:

[Baldanders]

Reference: Defunding the police, etc.

The *goal* is to destabilize American society.

I am a firm believer in Occam's razor and do not buy into "mass conspiracy" notions very often. I do believe there is compelling evidence that this social unrest is not organic. I saw a switch flipped in our city, then flipped back. Decades of peaceful protests to two nights of violence to a return to peaceful protests. The difference was the presence of outside influence. Mayors are confusing the issue and being taken as liars because they are staying stupid shit like "all the people arrested where from out of town" when that's *obviously* not true. What is true, and you'll just have to trust me or not on this, is the agitators are from out of town. They are not getting arrested in numbers because they are good at what they do. They agitate a crowd, let mob mentality take over, and then duck out to the next group. Some have been identified, some haven't. Dots are being connected between cities.

There is money behind this, and I would definitely not be surprised if it's not of foreign origin. This is a new type of sabotage warfare targeted directly at the viability of our style of government and attempting to Balkanize the US. To make us turn inward and leave the world stage to others, to damage our economy and limit our ability to project economic and military might, or to flat out cripple us.

I'm sure there are guys on here who know more then I do and equally can't put much more out, but just from the intel and ops plans I've been privy to I've changed my mind on this to believe foreign money and influence is being used to play a lot of our society into tearing itself down.

I tend to trust you, BBI.

So this is extremely worrying for me, to say the least.

[Kyle Reese]

That sure helps:

Do the risks of COVID transmission lessen if you’re in a protest? If so, “outdoor gatherings” should just label themselves as protests, no? People Against Trees (PAT), Everyone Gathering Against Demagoguery (EGAD), etc.


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