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Thread: Minneapolis PD Suspect Dies On Video While Handcuffed. FBI Investigating.

  1. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    Great point.

    We've had or currently have...black Secretary of Defense...
    Who was that? As far as I know, no women nor black individuals have served as SECDEF.

  2. #1522
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DpdG View Post
    I’m honestly not sure what you’re trying to say, although that website has some sovereign citizen overtones.

    My whole point was bad things happen when the profit motive creeps into the justice system, let alone a privatized/contracted LE force being discussed. It would be ripe for negative influences and outcomes.
    That web site is all about your second sentence. I posted it as an example of a group that has been speaking out against and helping people avoid becoming victims of the abuses that arise when policing is for profit since the days of the national "double nickel." Some of the comments may be silly ("never read the comments"), but I haven't picked up on "sovereign citizen overtones" in the actual site's published material.


    Quote Originally Posted by DpdG View Post
    That's a lot to unravel in what you wrote. Forgive me if I paraphrase too much, but it sounds like to distill it down- "Traffic enforcement is by and large revenue generation and that causes bad PR for police. The is compounded by running drivers for warrants, leading to arrests." Working off that distillation (apologies again if I cut out too much nuance) the things to remember is in the US there are about 6 million accidents per year and between 35-45k deaths/year on average for 2010-2018 (last year available). Speed is one of, if not the biggest causes of serious traffic accidents. This is a huge societal toll and while I may not agree with the particular numeric limit the engineers or legislators set for a given road, I think we can agree that reducing the frequency and severity of those accidents is a valid governmental purpose.
    Driving in a manner inappropriate for conditions generally is a common cause.

    But to Sanch's point: The main road that goes past my neighborhood is perfectly safe at 15 mph over the posted limit, which is why that's the speed most traffic flows on it. Every once in awhile, some alpha-hotel flies off the side of this straight, level, two lanes in each direction with a divided median road and takes out 100 feet of fencing or the corner of someone's house. That guy is the problem. An officer emptying a ticket book on people driving safely at the same speeds most everyone else does isn't going to do anything about the problem, but does support Sanch's point. If that officer channels Buford T. Justice with every contact, that also supports Sanch's point. Most don't, but some absolutely do.

    In the state where I grew up, speed limits are set unreasonably low and enforced in a way that is reasonably characterized as predatory by those who have experience living and driving elsewhere. Seeing five vehicles pulled over in a mile and a half on a section of highway that can be traveled with total safety at 20 mph over the posted speed limit was common.

    FWIW, I agree that what Sanch wrote about not running drivers for open warrants once pulled over and IDed is just silly.


    Quote Originally Posted by DpdG View Post
    If it's any consolation for you, in my state there is no direct monetary motivation for any agency to write citations. Fine revenue for all traffic citations go to the state's general fund and funds the Police Standards and Training Council, not to any particular LE agency or municipality.
    Don't fall into the logical fallacy that because in your AO or agency, things are done well and appropriately, they are done well and appropriately everywhere. (It's an error made often on this site by people I otherwise greatly respect.) There are absolutely jurisdictions, and not just tiny little towns with no tax base (although there are enough of those for it to be a problem), where substantial portions of the government's budget come from traffic ticket revenue, and where the wheels of the system grind most heavily on those least equipped to defend themselves.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  3. #1523
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Request: @BehindBlueI's I agree that there is a good chance that foreign interference in these matters is a thing...but let's not forget how much home grown, grassroots instigation there is either...whether local or out of state.
    I have no doubt that there are plenty of bad actors taking advantage of the current situation.

    I also have no doubt that a lot of the peaceful protesters were genuinely upset at the treatment of George Floyd.

  4. #1524
    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner View Post
    Who was that? As far as I know, no women nor black individuals have served as SECDEF.
    Oops. Colin Powell was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. There's no higher military position in DOD and I had a brain fart. Corrected.

  5. #1525
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Reference: Defunding the police, etc.

    The *goal* is to destabilize American society.

    I am a firm believer in Occam's razor and do not buy into "mass conspiracy" notions very often. I do believe there is compelling evidence that this social unrest is not organic. I saw a switch flipped in our city, then flipped back. Decades of peaceful protests to two nights of violence to a return to peaceful protests. The difference was the presence of outside influence. Mayors are confusing the issue and being taken as liars because they are staying stupid shit like "all the people arrested where from out of town" when that's *obviously* not true. What is true, and you'll just have to trust me or not on this, is the agitators are from out of town. They are not getting arrested in numbers because they are good at what they do. They agitate a crowd, let mob mentality take over, and then duck out to the next group. Some have been identified, some haven't. Dots are being connected between cities.

    There is money behind this, and I would definitely not be surprised if it's not of foreign origin. This is a new type of sabotage warfare targeted directly at the viability of our style of government and attempting to Balkanize the US. To make us turn inward and leave the world stage to others, to damage our economy and limit our ability to project economic and military might, or to flat out cripple us.

    I'm sure there are guys on here who know more then I do and equally can't put much more out, but just from the intel and ops plans I've been privy to I've changed my mind on this to believe foreign money and influence is being used to play a lot of our society into tearing itself down.
    That was well written and sobering.
    #RESIST

  6. #1526
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    I have no doubt that there are plenty of bad actors taking advantage of the current situation.

    I also have no doubt that a lot of the peaceful protesters were genuinely upset at the treatment of George Floyd.
    I never said otherwise. In other words, I agree. My posts have clearly indicated my disgust with how that specific matter was handled.

    They also have indicated that I have no tolerance for looting, vandalism, nor violence directed at innocents.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  7. #1527
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I never said otherwise. In other words, I agree. My posts have clearly indicated my disgust with how that specific matter was handled.
    My apologies — I didn’t mean to single you out. I just wanted one of the “outside influence” posts to respond to.

    Thank you for your contributions to this thread.

  8. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    ulls out tinfoil hat:

    Do remember that there's a number of people in the USA who think Marx is Just Dandy, and have studied the writings of him and others of a revolutionary ilk. To them, Increasing Misery is a good thing, as the discontent among the masses will finally bring about the promised Revolution of the Proletariat. To them, burning out the stores and police stations and other symbols of Bourgeois Oppression removes the blinders of Aspiration, letting the Toiling Masses see their true state.

    The chaos and anarchy is the means to a Revolutionary End.

    :/tinfoil:
    The process you describe is known as Accerationism It is the aspiration of extremist groups on both he far left and the far right.

    The basic theory is to “accelerate” the breakdown of the current social order in order to replace it with the system of their choice.

  9. #1529
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post

    I also have no doubt that a lot of the peaceful protesters were genuinely upset at the treatment of George Floyd.
    They are, and we're still seeing PEACEFUL protests. Without instigators stirring protests into mobs into riots, they remain peaceful. Some criminals still criminal, of course, but that's not the same as exploiting mob psychology and anonymity of large groups to purposefully create riots.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    It's Friday. I lost all sense of time being retired.

    BTW, WNY made the news as Buffalo PD managed to knock down an old man (my age) for no reason. Hurt he was on the ground and another officer went to aid him and was stopped by yet another officer. Looked very bad. It was the National Guard guys that first went to him to check. Video is everywhere.

    What are people thinking? Do folks not have control of emotions? He was absolutely no threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    I’ve got One Easy Trick to avoid riot cops from knocking me down. It involves me not standing in their way with my hand in their space and me shouting. He shouldn’t have been shoved, but he still should have known better.

    Speaking of that:
    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...-team-resigns/
    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I just heard that 50 something cops in the unit quit...as a symbol of support for the guys that got suspended.

    Frankly, I wouldn't want them back. Seriously, WTF? That old SOB was lying there like he was dead and they marched on by him. Fuck them.
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    I agree with this.

    In general there is already an issue with “Ask, Tell, Make” becoming “ask, ask again, debate, tell. make.” Under the current circumstances of civil unrest it is reasonable to shorten that “Tell, Make.” America is the world champion in you’re not the boss of me which means that they were going to be people that have to be made to do things.

    Specifically the injured party is a left wing “activist” who has been participating in protests for decades. He should know better. This background indicates either he thought he was the special snowflake that the orders to clear out did not apply to or he did what he did intentionally like an NBA or Soccer player taking a “flop.”
    Buffalo mayor says 75-year-old man pushed to ground was 'agitator' as he says he won't be firing cops



    https://www.foxnews.com/us/buffalo-m...ushed-agitator


    Byron Brown, the mayor of Buffalo, N.Y., said Friday the 75-year-old man who was shoved to the ground by two cops the previous day was an “agitator” who had been asked to leave the area “numerous” times.
    What we were informed of is that that individual was an agitator. He was trying to spark up the crowd of people. Those people were there into the darkness. Our concern is when it gets dark, there is a potential for violence,” Brown said.
    You “victim” was agitating the crowd and moved towards the officers after being told to leave numerous times. He is not a “victim” of anything.
    Last edited by HCM; 06-06-2020 at 10:25 AM.

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