Minneapolis PD Suspect Dies On Video While Handcuffed. FBI Investigating.

[Joe in PNG]

Culture is far more complicated than just race.

Culture is an amalgamation of shared: experience, social norms, rules/laws, gender, race, ethnic, language, symbolisms, and customs. Race is but one part, but it is a common one used to in many ways to rapidly identify someone’s potential inclusion into one cultural system or another.

But to equate race and culture is to miss the forest for the trees. A black man raised in the United States has more or less in common with a black man raised in Ethiopia than he does with a white man raised in the United States?

Probably less. Which is why we often include race and ethnicity and sometimes regional identities when we talk to people. I’ll never understand why someone gets offended when you ask them “Where are you from?”

“Why because I’m X?”

“Sure. Because you’re X and you’re not from around here, because you clearly don’t fit with the regional culture. So how about hopping off your high horse and helping my understand where you are from so we can build a broader understanding of our unique cultural perspectives? That we may work together and combine our perspectives to generate new shared experiences which can then form their own cultural dynamic? Or would you rather continue falling into a tribalist trap?”

—

And therein lies the problem with much of the current rhetoric. It reflects emotional as opposed to logical or even intellectual responses. And in doing so invoked that most sacred form of tribalism, “You are with my tribe or against is. If you are against us you are evil.”

A PNGian friend who went to college in the US would get irritated if someone described her as an "African-American"- she was neither.

[peterb]

It explains I think how two polar opposite positions held by different groups of people - have elements of truth but are not the whole picture.

I have two friends who are adult black males. Both have related experiences similar to the reporter you cite but one had one go much more aggressive as he was walking to his car with a friend coming out a Metallica concert. He's an Army veteran, a professional working in the financial sector and close friend of one my sons. The other is a former co-worker, a project manager, retired now. He's had multiple experiences along those lines and his adult son at least one.

You can argue that these people shouldn't feel this way, that their view of the world is wrong --- but I have to believe that they're being honest, and their feelings are their reality based on their own experience.

-------------------------------------
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/05/86706...this-world-too

"I feel helpless. Utterly helpless," said Jason Ellington of Union, N.J. "Black people for generations have been reminding the world that we as a people matter — through protests, sit-ins, boycotts and the like. We tried to be peaceful in our attempts. But as white supremacy reminds us, their importance — their relevance — comes with a healthy dose of violence and utter disrespect for people of color like me."

"I'm weary of living in a constant state of anxiety and fear because I have black and brown men in my life: my son, brothers, friends, grandson, son-in-law and father. I'm bone tired of existing in a system that tells me every damn day that me and my people do not matter," said the Rev. Carol Thomas Cissel of State College, Pa.

"My son, who is 28 years old and now a new father of his own son, said, 'It must be nice to wake up in the morning and feel safe, to not be afraid to go out and do what you have to do for the day, to hang out with your friends, not be afraid of the police. I wonder what that is like.' When I heard that, I was almost in tears," Jennings said.

"We can't go jogging without worrying about being lynched; we can't go bird-watching without having the police called on us. Our children can't go outside and play without us worrying about them being gunned down and labeled 'suspects.' We can't sleep in our own beds without being executed," he said. "The same rights and protections that our white peers are afforded are not afforded to us. We can't arm ourselves without being labeled thugs and shot."

[peterb]

Given that, I think the likely avenue pursued will be the extreme curtailment of police officers as we know it in some places, mostly replaced by an unarmed public safety officer model that Minneapolis is talking about. Society has been moving towards the "social worker with a gun" concept for a while, and I think they're going to further develop the concept by ditching the gun and codify the position as law encouragement instead of law enforcement, as such will be necessary to keep the personnel from getting murdered all the time, as well as naturally limit their need to use force in order to effectuate arrests.

I just read an interview where the author was arguing that one of the problems with modern policing was that the police were being asked to do too much social work. The idea is that that the task of dealing with things like homelessness and drug abuse -- which are fundamentally social issues, not law enforcement issues -- should not fall on the police, because the tools of law enforcement are not appropriate and often lead to more conflict. Your thoughts?

[JHC]

You can argue that these people shouldn't feel this way, that their view of the world is wrong --- but I have to believe that they're being honest, and their feelings are their reality based on their own experience.

-------------------------------------
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/05/86706...this-world-too

"I feel helpless. Utterly helpless," said Jason Ellington of Union, N.J. "Black people for generations have been reminding the world that we as a people matter — through protests, sit-ins, boycotts and the like. We tried to be peaceful in our attempts. But as white supremacy reminds us, their importance — their relevance — comes with a healthy dose of violence and utter disrespect for people of color like me."

"I'm weary of living in a constant state of anxiety and fear because I have black and brown men in my life: my son, brothers, friends, grandson, son-in-law and father. I'm bone tired of existing in a system that tells me every damn day that me and my people do not matter," said the Rev. Carol Thomas Cissel of State College, Pa.

"My son, who is 28 years old and now a new father of his own son, said, 'It must be nice to wake up in the morning and feel safe, to not be afraid to go out and do what you have to do for the day, to hang out with your friends, not be afraid of the police. I wonder what that is like.' When I heard that, I was almost in tears," Jennings said.

"We can't go jogging without worrying about being lynched; we can't go bird-watching without having the police called on us. Our children can't go outside and play without us worrying about them being gunned down and labeled 'suspects.' We can't sleep in our own beds without being executed," he said. "The same rights and protections that our white peers are afforded are not afforded to us. We can't arm ourselves without being labeled thugs and shot."

Republican Senator Tim Scott's speech on this subject from 2016

https://time.com/4406540/senator-tim...ch-transcript/

excerpts:

"One of the times, I remember I was leaving the mall. I took a left out of the mall and as soon as I took a left, a police officer pulled in right behind me. That was my first left. I got to another traffic light, I took another left into a neighborhood. Police followed behind me. I took a third left onto the street that at the time led to my apartment complex. Finally, I took a fourth left coming into my apartment complex and then the blue lights went on. The officer approached the car and said that I did not use my turn signal on the fourth turn. Keep in mind, as you might imagine, I was paying very close attention to the law enforcement officer who followed me on four turns. Do you really think that somehow I forget to use my turn signal on that fourth turn? Well, according to him, I did. Another time, I was following a friend of mine. We had just left working out and we were heading out to grab a bite to eat about 4:00 in the afternoon. He pulls out and I pull out behind him. We’re driving down the road and blue lights come on. An officer pulls me into the median and starts telling me that he thinks perhaps the car is stolen. Well, I started to ask myself because I was smart enough not to ask him, asking myself, is the license plate coming in as stolen? Does the license plate match the car? I was looking for some rational reason that may have prompted him to stopping me on the side of the road."


" I also think about the experiences of my brother who became a command sergeant major in the United States Army, the highest rank for an enlisted soldier. He was driving from Texas to Charleston, pulled over by a law enforcement officer who wanted to know if he had stolen the car he was driving because it was a Volvo. I do not know many African-American men who do not have a very similar story to tell, no matter the profession, no matter their income, no matter their disposition in life. I also recall the story of one of my former staffers, a great guy, about 30 years old, who drove a Chrysler 300. A nice car, without any question, but not a Ferrari, not a super nice car. He was pulled over so many times here in D.C. for absolutely no reason other than for driving a nice car. He sold that car and bought a more obscure form of transportation. He was tired of being targeted."

[5pins]

A podcast interview with the guy that disarmed the rioter that took the AR from the police car.

[BehindBlueI's]

The reporter was stopped for going 72 or 73 miles an hour in a 70 mile an hour zone. At the time he reported he was traveling among a group of cars going the same speed...

Likewise, there have been several studies that have proven the death penalty in disproportionately applied to black offenders, and that black offenders are more likely to receive a capital sentence if they killed a white person than if they had killed a black person, or other minority:

[I]The color of a defendant and victim's skin plays a crucial and unacceptable role in deciding who receives the death penalty in America. People of color have accounted for a disproportionate 43 % of total executions since 1976 and 55 % of those currently awaiting execution.

If you can find a place to legally do so, go sit on the side of the road with traffic traveling 70mph+. See at what point you can tell the race of a driver.

Who did the black people kill to get the death penalty and in what situation? Having worked a shit ton of these crimes, most black on black shootings are drug related. Dope rips seldom lead to death penalty cases for many reasons. Some black on white shootings are dope rips, but many are clerks, delivery drivers, etc. during robberies. Which is considered more "heinous" under the law? By juries? When black drug dealers kill each other it's a statistic, the story doesn't make the paper. When a doctor is killed in a home invasion or a preacher's wife is killed while jogging, it makes the news. Same as a man drug to death behind a pickup. It's unusual and shocks the sensibility regardless of race. So when the white doctor is murdered in his home by black teens or the black teen is drug to death by white adults, that makes the news and works people up. That plays into sentencing. But those events do not occur in equal numbers.

Black urban communities are often harder to find cooperative witnesses in. Sometimes due to a general dislike of the police, but often due to fear of retaliation from gangs. I understand that. If I had to live, with my family, next to a gang's clubhouse I'd find it a tough decision if risking my family and myself to testify against somebody who killed someone in front of my house would be worth it. Case strength matters.

So how did that study control for "heinous" and how did it control for how sympathetic the victim was and how sympathetic or cooperative witnesses were? Case strength? Or did it just decide every black suspect case and every white suspect case were the same and therefore only racism could explain any differences in outcome?

[olstyn]

Lex Luthier and others, how do things look from wherever you guys are?

I'm still listening to the SPPD scanner occasionally, and there's still activity on there that seems related to rioting, etc., but things do seem to be calming down across the metro. Whether MPD comes out the other side in anything like an intact condition is an open question, with multiple city council members over there trying to find a way to disband the department. Weird times...

[Joe in PNG]

So how did that study control for "heinous" and how did it control for how sympathetic the victim was and how sympathetic or cooperative witnesses were? Case strength? Or did it just decide every black suspect case and every white suspect case were the same and therefore only racism could explain any differences in outcome?

A for instance. A friend of mine was a bank teller. A guy came in and robbed the place, then took her and one of her co-workers into the back, and shot both in the head. The one teller was killed, and my friend wound up as a quadriplegic for the rest of her life. He was caught, and sentenced to death. The fact that he was a black man has nothing to do with it- if he was the whitest of white crackers, he probably would get the exact sentence. But it does count toward those statistics.

[Borderland]

I saw that Minneapolis School District has separated itself from the city police department meaning the district wants no association with the PD. In another city a restaurant advertised free meals for cops, caught shit for doing so, and then publicly apologized for the offer. I foresee strikes by police unions and walkouts by others. I support this. Let's give dummies what they seek.

I wonder if this madness of blaming all police is driven by self preservation on one hand and lack of moral courage on the other? Self preservation might apply to those who fear effects of criticism, and lack of moral courage could pertain to those who will not step forward to veer from a new and crazy norm. Regardless, ability to think critically appears to have disappeared. Where is the logic in all this? For the first time I am afraid but not for my personal safety. I am afraid because I woke up in a world that frightens me. I am reminded of Mao's Cultural Revolution.

It's the 60's all over again. I have a grand daughter that adores hippies and listens to Led Zeppelin. She can recite volumes of information about those 60-70 bands and can play their music on her guitar.

The defunding of the police isn't unlike the defunding of the military during the Vietnam war. There was no commitment by the pentagon to ever leave Vietnam. They just ran out of money when congress slashed the defense budget. The draft also ended in 1973 so that changed a few things for the military also.

Not many people around that remember the 60's but the times were not that much different. It was a cultural revolution on a grand scale. Having lived thru that I'm not terribly worried.

I suspect a lot of people will be moving to the country pretty soon.

[BehindBlueI's]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lou...ing-disrespect

Our mayor was asked why he's publicly trashing us while privately telling us what a great job we're doing. Cops are getting tired of being everybody's bad guy. I expect we'll see a wave of retirements from those eligible to do so and moving to the private sector or lateral transfers to smaller departments among the newest officers, combined with even more difficultly recruiting good candidates shortly.