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Thread: Minneapolis PD Suspect Dies On Video While Handcuffed. FBI Investigating.

  1. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    Everything is the new racism.

    Income inequality-racism. Any problems-racism. Heck even climate change is racism, at least according to some.
    And that's where discussions break down so quickly into "That's racist!" "I am not!". The word is used mean anything from "white supremacist" to "has an account at a bank that has racist lending policies" to unconscious biases.

    It doesn't necessarily mean that there is bad intent. It's often used to mean something like "disproportionally affects people of color."

    If you're going to have a productive discussion about race, both parties have to define what they mean when they use the word.

  2. #1212
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffhounddog View Post
    Fentanyl intoxication, and recent use of methamphetamine and cannabis. Why is this not getting more play? I guess Fentanyl does nothing to people? Last I knew it made people really aggravating and some what stronger than normal.
    Intoxication is a component of excited delirium / positional asphyxiation. LE is trained to know that. I don't think his toxicology reports are a surprise to any of us. I think there is a distinction between "killed him'" and "increased his risk then let him die", but that's a charging decision and the officers still did the wrong thing.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #1213
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffhounddog View Post
    I guess Fentanyl does nothing to people? Last I knew it made people really aggravating and some what stronger than normal.
    Fentanyl is a synthetic opiate narcotic used for procedural sedation or pain control and is not known to have either of the effects you describe. Quite the opposite, if anything.

  4. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of that. My comment was intended to call into question whether Mr. Adams' comment actually had any meaning.
    I think his comment has meaning. So would Dilbert and Dogbert. Even the dude with the pointy hair would figure this out.

  5. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by ffhounddog View Post
    Fentanyl intoxication, and recent use of methamphetamine and cannabis. Why is this not getting more play? I guess Fentanyl does nothing to people? Last I knew it made people really aggravating and some what stronger than normal.
    Because the restraint protocol for aggravating, strong people -- with or without drugs on board -- is still the standard restraint protocol.

    There are lots of reasons someone can be difficult on scene. You don't know right then if the person is drunk, or has drugs on board, or low blood sugar, or a head injury, or has screwed up their meds, or is just an obnoxious pain in the ass. if you're a professional you treat them professionally.

  6. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    This is generally something that is taught to LE. Well, at least it was to me.

    Still, the notion that "if they can yell, they can breath" is a bigger problem. I'm guilty of it. I was guilty of it until this incident happened. It was taught to me when I was in the military, in EMS by the paramedics and critical care nurses, as also parroted when I joined LE. I've literally said it to people when I was restraining an EDP (the difference being I used a sanctioned technique and moved them to sitting immediately after cuffing and conducting a contraband sweep).

    Problem being that some doctors would rather do snide drive-by posts on a gun forum about how stupid everyone else is (and I'm sure more among their own ranks), instead of actually taking the time to educate their constituent agencies. I'm really appreciative of what I've learned here as I'll be a better LEO and medical provider for it (particularly appreciative for the more positive MD/DO types @Dr_Thanatos @Nephrology @ccmdfd) but in general for the MD/DOs on here: If you're in a position of influence with a local FD/EMS/LE agency, take the time to teach this to them. I'm sure you can get the buy-in right now.
    You know, that's a great idea. I'll talk to our PD.

    And for the record, most of the MD's were also taught if they can talk they can breathe. We're having our own discussion about how "I can't breathe" means something is going wrong with my respiration process and I can't describe to you exactly what it feels like. Essentially, when someone begins to feel dyspneic (Short of breath) it is described as "I can't breathe." And needs to be taken seriously. Or they are full of shit. But still take it seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    Have we linked this yet?

    Floyd autopsy results made public. Very interesting reading.

    I’d be especially interested in the takes of our medical peeps.


    Check it:

    https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf
    I read it a little while age. Dr. Baker did a great job with an unbelievable turnaround time. It is a more descriptive diagnosis than I usually use, but in this case, probably the right answer. Sometimes everything doesn't wrap into a neat bow.

    Basically, decedent had a lot of (presumably undiagnosed) medical problems. Didn't shy away from drugs. And was a really bad choice for a person to restrain in such a manner. But the PD didn't actually cause any neck injury or evidence of mechanical asphyxia.

  7. #1217
    Member JDD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    Possible, but then we will have a nation with even bigger imbeciles at the helm. Not sure that I agree with Gen. Mattis, but hopefully he has more info on hand than I do. Although I do wonder where he was during the 8 years of the Obama admin.

    Trump may be a total asshat, but he is the less smelly asshat of the bunch offering to lead this nation. Which is sadly what this country has devolved to politically over the last few decades. Voting for the least pungent asshole on the ballot. Between Biden/DNC vision for this country and Trump I'll take my chances with 4 more years of Trump any day.
    You are joking right?

    Sorry, I am editing to acknowledge that not everyone is a huge Mattis acolyte, but to give the wavetops: Mattis was active duty until 2013, finishing up as Centcom Commander. Details are not fully clear, although you can read more of them in his book "Call Sign Chaos", but one of his big reasons for departing where strong breaks in policy with the President Obama.
    Last edited by JDD; 06-04-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  8. #1218
    Quote Originally Posted by JDD View Post
    You are joking right?
    I read it as a joke. Assume good faith, etc.

    But there's a lot going on this season, so people might not remember things like clashing with Obama over Iran, commanding CENTCOM, and eventually "resigning" the Trump administration over abandoning the Kurds. COVID-19 is old and boring now, so certainly the last President is a distant memory.

  9. #1219
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Intoxication is a component of excited delirium / positional asphyxiation. LE is trained to know that. I don't think his toxicology reports are a surprise to any of us. I think there is a distinction between "killed him'" and "increased his risk then let him die", but that's a charging decision and the officers still did the wrong thing.

    Agreed. I'm not seeing how Floyd being intoxicated is going to change the course in a trial. Everyone has to remember that Floyd won't be on trial here, regardless of his physical or mental condition. The focus will be on the actions of the officers at the scene.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  10. #1220
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Contributing factors are contributing factors.

    The question is do any of them warrant kneeling on the dude's neck for 8 minutes with 3 other officers in immediate proximity? It's not like the kneeling officer was on his own dealing with a hostile crowd. They had the guy in handcuffs outnumbered 4 to 1 and he was in cuffs on the ground.

    The reasonableness of that UOF isn't changed by Mr. Floyd's medical situation.

    It's true that a person who didn't have underlying health problems might have survived such an assault, but that's like claiming the little old lady you shoved down the stairs wouldn't have broken her neck if she didn't have osteoporosis. That's hardly the relevant issue.

    If the officers knew he was positive for COVID, or if they even suspected it given the current pandemic, that doesn't really change matters much either. Police regularly interact with people who are infected with horrible communicable diseases and manage to deal with them without kneeling on their necks until they're dead.
    3/15/2016

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