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Thread: New York man arrested for using unlicensed gun to shoot robber . . .

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    No charges were filed because it was upstate. In NYC /LI etc that would not have turned out as well.
    When it comes to gun prosecutions, we're effectively two different states (which is what I was driving at). The county sheriffs swing whichever way the political winds blow, and outside of maybe Erie, Albany, and Schenectady counties, that's pretty strongly pro-gun. True SAFE Act prosecutions are almost unheard of (there's something like 8,000 a year, 80% of which are NYC+LI, and most are for stuff that was already a felony beforehand). On the other hand, my concealed carry permit isn't valid in NYC. If I were to travel to Long Island, I would have to follow the same rules as an out-of-state resident.

  2. #12
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Damn...New York has gotten crazy...apparently the grocery stores are sentient now.
    "Cleanup on Aisle 3: How NY Groceries Got Their Guns and Finally Took Matters Into Their Own Hands" by I.B. Shutin

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    It sounds like your DA is viewing such situations with the "competing harms" concept.

    ...but, would it really be applicable here? Doesn't that idea hinge on the concept that you gained access to the firearm in-extremis (such as a felon justifiably shooting someone using a friend's gun, or someone without a gun license grabbing a downed officer's gun to shoot a killer), and not applicable to someone who was breaking the law before the need arose?

    Or, is what you're talking about a different practice altogether?

    @LockedBreech @ssb what about your areas?
    Wyoming is a profoundly gun friendly state. My gun-related prosecutions are almost zero and are usually misdemeanor ones for someone having their CCW in a bar. For felon in possession, every single time I've seen it come up the Federal district court takes it from us if they want it.

    Speaking generally about charging victims, it's not at all uncommon to decline to charge a relatively minor crime to secure victim cooperation in a major crime, and it's often the clearly right move.

    As was noted after your post, the necessity defense is available regardless of DA charging decision in your hypothetical scenarios, and I can't think of a DA that would be dumb enough to charge those kind of things anyway.

    Then again, we're talking about NY here, maybe I shouldn't underestimate dumb DAs.
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  4. #14
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    Did someone mention Bernard Goetz? He was not convicted for the shooting but was convicted on the gun charges.

    I wonder if the social circumstances would have changed for a NYC jury now? Also, what was the status of the shooter? Was he a prohibited person? If not, it shows how the Heller decision did not have far reaching consequences. While protecting the right to have a gun at home, it would have seemed that such logic would apply to places of business. The process of getting a gun permit in NYC is glacial, also contrary to the spirit of the decision. However, repeat alert, the Court has not as yet taken up a case to break that system. If it does this term is yet to be seen.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LockedBreech View Post

    Then again, we're talking about NY here, maybe I shouldn't underestimate dumb DAs.
    It's not about them being dumb, it's about the culture of the institutions they (willingly) serve. If de Blasio represents NYC, is it any wonder?

    Thankfully, on the federal level I never felt the need to compromise my values when bringing a case forward while working in NYC. Under state and city laws and regulations, I'd have a harder time looking at myself in the mirror. Glad I got out in '87.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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  6. #16
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    This sounds like some U.K. bullshit. We know law enforcement can’t be there to protect you all the time but the government doesn’t trust you enough to defend yourself with a firearm.

    I really don’t understand why laws like this haven’t been overturned by SCOTUS.
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  7. #17
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    This sounds like some U.K. bullshit. We know law enforcement can’t be there to protect you all the time but the government doesn’t trust you enough to defend yourself with a firearm.

    I really don’t understand why laws like this haven’t been overturned by SCOTUS.
    I think it's because the "powers that be" would prefer that "we the people" be "we the sheeple". A toothless adversary is less daunting to those pulling the strings.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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  8. #18
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    SCOTUS - got to keep up. They have refused to take up a gun case for years since the last two. Next, the court is 4/4 on gun rights with Roberts being an unknown. Heller was ambiguous (no, it wasn't, Scalia was a genius - blah, blah).

    Now we are waiting for them, yet again. The theories are they will not take a case because the 4 fear Roberts or the progun justices are planning the golden case that comes from the mountain with tablets of stone on fire that free the guns - Hallelujah. However, they might take a wishy-washy case (like the NYC one) and come up with a wishy-washy decision that sounds good and changes nothing on the ground.

    We will see.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
    When it comes to gun prosecutions, we're effectively two different states (which is what I was driving at). The county sheriffs swing whichever way the political winds blow, and outside of maybe Erie, Albany, and Schenectady counties, that's pretty strongly pro-gun. True SAFE Act prosecutions are almost unheard of (there's something like 8,000 a year, 80% of which are NYC+LI, and most are for stuff that was already a felony beforehand). On the other hand, my concealed carry permit isn't valid in NYC. If I were to travel to Long Island, I would have to follow the same rules as an out-of-state resident.
    I agree but the key factor in who gets prosecuted or not is the District Attorneys not the Sheriffs. The DAs are also elected and thus follow the political winds of their constituents.

  10. #20
    @TGS

    We prosecute unlawful possession of a weapon (misdemeanor - basically carrying without a permit), but in my current location that is a rare charge to see (mostly rural, and it's not illegal to have a loaded gun in your car). We prosecute the felon in possession cases when the feds do not (so, the vast majority of them). However, a quirk of our laws is that it's not illegal to be a felon in possession of a long gun as a general matter, but it is illegal to possess a handgun as a felon. If you have a prior involving a crime of violence or a drug felony, however, the grade of felony is enhanced and it is then illegal to possess any type of firearm.

    In my jurisdiction I would be utterly shocked to see an otherwise lawful self defense case involve a charge of felon in possession or unlawful possession of a firearm. It is possible under our laws, but prosecutorial discretion is also a thing, and setting that aside a local jury would probably kill that one off pretty quickly once they learned the facts. Obviously, if we charge a murder and the murderer is a felon, we'll probably charge the felony gun charge as well.

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