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Thread: Once you go dot, do you ever shoot irons again?

  1. #61
    In happy conditions, like bright light, reasonable distances, and static shooting, I often shoot comparable, and some days, even better scores with iron sight variants of my red dot pistols. When I add in dim or low light, shooting on the move, and shooting at moving targets, the red dot pistol runs away from my performance with iron sights. As your eyes mature, the performance delta only grows greater.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    My eyes tend to see an electronic optical dot, as provided by the miniaturized optics for mounting on pistols, (MRDS,) as a disturbingly tilted figure 8,... SNIP
    Me, too.

    Several years ago, I put a couple of thousand rounds through a G17 with a dot. I liked it for some things but it didn't do well when the screen was wet, and that's a big deal in the Pacific Northwest.

    I'll consider them again once that gets addressed.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  3. #63
    Biggest advantage that in any scenario, the dot will appear in your vision as long as its in your eye box. having been in situations where it was just irons and then an optic, the optic was much easier to use under stress. RDS on the handgun seems to offer that same advantage.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    The battery life, size of the optic, how flush the brightness adjustment is. and mounting system make it all a non-starter to me.
    I assume that the size of the optic issue is in reference to potential printing issues? And the adjustment is due to you want to adjust it on the fly while it remains concealed? What's your beef with the mounting system?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    I shoot handguns because that's what I'm most likely to have to fight with.

    About 1/2 my practice is with the dot turned off simulating a dead battery or failing to have the optic set to a visible level. The performance difference between the two is negligible at anything except shooting 25 yard bullseye. Even then it's a minor difference at best.
    About 1/3 for my practice. Our annual rifle quals require our dot be turned off for several relays. Literaly 8 rounds out of 40. While it is good skills and good training I see it as a training scar. When you turn off your dot you know it doesn't work, so remediation really isn't a challange. A good training partner can turn off, turn down, or bloom your sight so on a timer you are forced to adapt to an unexpected sight picture.

    Just a thought.

    pat

  6. #66
    How much of your practice is with no dot or BUIS, just shooting the dot Pistol by index, and figuring out what you can do that way?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #67
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    Biggest advantage that in any scenario, the dot will appear in your vision as long as its in your eye box. having been in situations where it was just irons and then an optic, the optic was much easier to use under stress. RDS on the handgun seems to offer that same advantage.
    Interesting. I find the exact opposite. In awkward positions, I find it easier to re-index iron sights. Watching open shooters do the "C-more shuffle"... But, I agree that as you get used to the sighting system it does become easier.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Interesting. I find the exact opposite. In awkward positions, I find it easier to re-index iron sights. Watching open shooters do the "C-more shuffle"... But, I agree that as you get used to the sighting system it does become easier.
    I agree


    I have not had much experience with red dots but I have witnessed and have heard of instructors talk about how people struggle with it when they are put in awkward positions. Obviously like many have extolled you got to put in the time with red dots.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    How much of your practice is with no dot or BUIS, just shooting the dot Pistol by index, and figuring out what you can do that way?
    Prolly half my "no dot" training. Meat in the window is usually sufficient for COM at 7-10 yards. I will revert to irons when "not dot" and small targets. Getting comfortable enough to start working meat in the window for small targets at close range.

    Uncle Pat used to preach the importance of index at social distances.

    @GJM and @HCM have been instrumental in guiding me away from the "developing index from the runway with irons" Gabe S teaches. Although it may still be a valid teaching tool for newbies in an institutional setting.

    My new Grip Force adapter on my Gen4 G17 has significantly improved my index and ability to find the dot after a decade and a half of shooting 1911s...

    pat

  10. #70
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    I started on red dots in the late '80s.

    Then I actually built fundamentals on DA revolvers and iron sights in the late 90s/early 2000s that I hadn't on the first try.

    Now, I have vision problems bad enough that I would like red dots on most of my guns, in theory, but astigmatism makes them pretty much useless for me beyond 20-25 yards, at least for any real accuracy.

    I am still skeptical about teaching fundamentals on red dots to newbies.
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
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