Once you go dot, do you ever shoot irons again?

[RevolverRob]

I assume that the size of the optic issue is in reference to potential printing issues? And the adjustment is due to you want to adjust it on the fly while it remains concealed? What's your beef with the mounting system?

Yes, the thing is huge in an area where I find printing to occur most often, after the butt.

An auto adjust would be ideal, otherwise, the buttons mounted lowered and farther back.

I'm not a fan of the cross-bolt and clamp-tightening (basically scaled down 1913 rail) format on a reciprocating slide. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the sandwiched plate systems that are out there, either, but multiple bosses milled to a specific footprint allows for both a lower mount and less, potential, forward/backwards movement if the footprint isn't milled tightly. I suspect it's not really an issue (in fact it hasn't really borne out to be one), but it's one of those things where I can't help but think it could happen.

FWIW - I would actually prefer it if someone came up with a footprint that actually uses some through bosses. In other words, you would have it milled down and have some posts sticking up and slide the optic over the posts and those posts would come up flush through the optic housing (even being visible from above). Ideally, this would be at all four corners of the optic. Then, a screw in between each set of posts, for four total, would be used to secure the optic. I doubt you could that format loose.

[Pistol Pete 10]

Been shooting dots on Bullseye guns for 20 years or so, have a dot on a 22 rifle. My other 50 guns still have open sights, a peep sight, or a scope. I can't see the usefulness of a dot on a carry gun.

[ASH556]

Been shooting dots on Bullseye guns for 20 years or so, have a dot on a 22 rifle. My other 50 guns still have open sights, a peep sight, or a scope. I can't see the usefulness of a dot on a carry gun.

I suppose that makes sense if you only consider a carry gun to be for 7yds and closer. In that case, why use sights at all? Just shoot from index. However, if you understand that aiming is a good thing and you might need to use a carry gun to shoot farther targets or smaller targets, the dot quickly shows its usefulness.

Since you shoot bullseye, let me ask you another question: what’s your average 25yd bullseye score with your carry gun?

[PNWTO]

Been shooting dots on Bullseye guns for 20 years or so, have a dot on a 22 rifle. My other 50 guns still have open sights, a peep sight, or a scope. I can't see the usefulness of a dot on a carry gun.

Accuracy

Speed

Effective Range

Low-Light/No-Light (or NODs for certain users)

Also, the dot gives a lot of good feedback to the shooter. Those reasons plus many others are why they are being adopted en masse. There’s a lot of good info in the RDS subforum so I won’t try to regurgitate it all.

[Tom Duffy]

Still, the fact that the Acro hasn’t seen wider adoption and acceptance tells me something. It’s not just battery life, I think alot of it is the size of the thing compared to a RMR, in particular. If Trijicon hadn’t screwed the pooch with the SRO...

Curious; how do you think that Trijicon screwed the pooch with the SRO?

[rkittine]

Two years ago I tried a Dot for the first time. It looked like a star rather than a dot and I couldn't figure out why, so I gave up. Needing reading glasses, seeing the sights in focus as well as the target was an issue until I figured out a way to make it work.

Then last year I had cataract surgery in both eyes. Of course did not eliminate the reading glass issue, but miraculously a red do is now w dot. My cataracts in the center of my eyes were making the dot blur. I have two dots now and once things open up I am going to set them up and see how I like them. All my rifles have scopes on especially for the focus issue of sights and target, so I expect good things. Many of my gun though are to valuable to start modifying in my opinion, so they will stay iron sighted.

Bob

[Clusterfrack]

I suppose that makes sense if you only consider a carry gun to be for 7yds and closer. In that case, why use sights at all? Just shoot from index. However, if you understand that aiming is a good thing and you might need to use a carry gun to shoot farther targets or smaller targets, the dot quickly shows its usefulness.

Since you shoot bullseye, let me ask you another question: what’s your average 25yd bullseye score with your carry gun?

I can't answer for @Pistol Pete 10, and I do see the point of a RDS on a carry gun for some people. Just not me.

My typical B8 score with my P-07 is 90-97, shooting quickly. Draw to 2 Alphas at 25yds from concealment in under 2s.

Shooting iron sights well takes a lot of work, and some people's vision won't allow it, but not everyone needs a RDS.

[Trooper224]

I can't answer for @Pistol Pete 10, and I do see the point of a RDS on a carry gun for some people. Just not me.

My typical B8 score with my P-07 is 90-97, shooting quickly. Draw to 2 Alphas at 25yds from concealment in under 2s.

Shooting iron sights well takes a lot of work, and some people's vision won't allow it, but not everyone needs a RDS.

This pretty sums up my own experience. I'm sure they're the future and I'm willing to adopt one when it becomes necessary, but I don't need one right now.

[RevolverRob]

I can't answer for @Pistol Pete 10, and I do see the point of a RDS on a carry gun for some people. Just not me.

My typical B8 score with my P-07 is 90-97, shooting quickly. Draw to 2 Alphas at 25yds from concealment in under 2s.

Shooting iron sights well takes a lot of work, and some people's vision won't allow it, but not everyone needs a RDS.

It’s actually why I don’t care much for dots. Big dots (3-moa+) sufficiently obscure the target that I start dropping points off my 25y B8 shooting. Small dots seem to slow me down. The best I’ve tried are actually deltas reticles because I can throw the blob for close work, but sight the tip of the delta for precise work (also why I favor chevron type reticles for long guns employed at closer (<200y) ranges. It’s not like I gain anything up close from a big dot either.

I’m not as fast, more like draw to two As in 2.3-2.4 seconds. If I drop one to a B, I can start to flirt with 2.0. Accuracy wise, 93-95 with at least 2xs from my 1911s lately. So for me it’s this question:

Does the dot let me drop enough off speed wise to make up for going from 93-95 to 88-90 accuracy wise? I don’t know that answer. Last time I seriously tried the dot, I was doing a platform switch (M&P 1.0), which didn’t work for me (far too inconsistent on index). In order to really gauge, I think I probably need to mill and mount a dot on a 1911. I don’t see myself bothering to do that any time soon, to be honest. Instead, I’m focusing on improving drawstroke and transitions. I think once I feel I’ve really plateaued with irons I might revisit dots.

Which brings me all the way back around to the main Q in the OP. I tried dots, because I falsely thought that dot skills might be less perishable than iron sight skills. When you’re like me and have very limited range time dryfire and anything that can keep you sharper with less trigger time is what you hunt. What I discovered was that to get hits with the dot, I had to rebuild my fundamentals for index and drawstroke. And THEN I discovered that the dot is less forgiving than irons with respect to changing lighting conditions and circumstances particularly how I might employ one (bear in mind this was before the current crop of auto adjusting optics). I effectively discovered that the dot promises a lot, but requires substantial shift away from my already well established fundamentals. As a result, I did not have the time or desire to continue further exploration and I went back to irons.

Some day I will revisit the dot concept, because it seems to offer a lot for my weak eyesight and moderate skills at shooting movers and working transitions. But I’m not there yet.

[Borderland]

I have a dot on one of my 6 pistols. I see some advantage to a dot at 25 yards and beyond because of my old eyes. I don't consider 25 yds to be a self defense situation but I'm sure many here will disagree with that. At 15 yds a dot doesn't help me unless I bench rest the pistol. I've been shooting iron sights for so long I'm not willing to relearn how to shoot and I'm not going to the expense of putting dots on all my pistols.

I ask my friend who has several pistols with dots if he thinks dots help. He said he can't tell the difference even when he shoots the same pistols with and without a dot. He has a lot of pistols.

OK Boomer