I misunderstood.
I misunderstood.
David S.
Most of these will be well outside of your budget, but they are options that haven't been mentioned that are fairly lightweight with reticles that have more information than a duplex and are from reputable manufacturers without a reputation for fragility:
- March D8SV24FIML
- Kahles K16i
- Leupold MK6
- Swarovski Z8i
You might be able to find a used MK6 or K16i for cheap given that people seem enamored with the new Vortex Razor.
You know, on second thought, I may be willing to expand my budget on this one. The Vortex PST I have on it is more than adequate for now, and I would rather buy the right scope than compromise on something that isn't a substantial improvement over the Viper.Originally Posted by Default.mp3
That's sort of my concern re: the lower end Trijicons - they seem like they might be better, but not THAT much better than the PST.
Cheap is relative - $ 1500 is cheap for a K16i
Maybe add a used NX8 to that list. They can be found used for sub $1500 if you are patient.
Default is spot on that the Vortex 1-10 is helping push more used 1-6 and 1-8 on the market.
What is your budget ?
Good, light cheap pick two.
If 1-4 is acceptable but you just want better glass the Steiner P4Xi is daylight bright IME. Prices have gone up but they can still be had used for about $500.
If you are willing to look used IME the Bushnell tactical elite 1-6 is a sleeper the FFP is barely daylight bright but not Aimpoint bright like the Vortex. The FFP and SFP reticles are good BDC ‘s at 6x
Last edited by HCM; 05-25-2020 at 03:55 PM.
The TR24 with the triangle reticle is a great alternative to an RDS with a magnifier. It is durable IME but it sounds like you are looking for more of a DMR scope.
Oh, quite the opposite. I want a light LPVO that is as close to aimpoint-like function and durability. I don't really need high mag but I won't say no to it either. Priorities are roughly in order:
1. Light (~16oz ideally, less if possible)
2. Durable
3. Daytime bright illumination
4. Good glass
5. Good reticle
As mentioned above, if I need to save and spend more to get what I want, I'm happy to do that. How does the TR24 compare the Viper Gen 1? If it's better but not substantially so per requirements above then I'd rather wait until I can afford something that will be a real upgrade in quality. Like I said, not in a rush to buy this.
edit: at least from some preliminary digging, the Kahles K16i seems to check a lot of boxes. The Bushnell also seems interesting - would be curious to know how much of a step up from the PST it is.
That said, I also saw a K16i sell for $1400 on ARfcom EE so maybe I will just hold out for a good used listing and not compromise.
Last edited by Nephrology; 05-25-2020 at 04:31 PM.
The TR24, like the prior Accupoints I’ve tried has great glass, clearer and with better edge to edge quality than the Gen 1 PST.
The TR24 is illuminated by a combo of fiber optic and tritium. It can be a an issue in certain lighting conditions like dawn/dusk and dark going into light. The he FO requires at least some external light and the tritium is not bright enough to overpower the transitional lighting. The bigger triangle reticle helps with this. The newer accupoints actually come with a sunshade to tone down the FO in bright sunlight. The duplex or mil dot reticle with just the center illuminated dot is, IMHO useless in the the accupoints.
It’s a great range, gun games, daytime use optic.
Another option would be a used ACOG with an offset or top mounted MRDS. I personally prefer the 3x TA33 and the 3.5x TA11 to the more common 4x models but would consider a 4x with a reverse cantilever mount like the Larue USMC or KRAM if the price was right. The 3x and 3.5x both have much more forgiving eye box and eye relief.
The only downside to the ACOG for some is there is no focus adjustment. The ACOG is made for young soldiers with good eyes. One advantage to LVPOs is if you wear RX glasses you can adjust the focus to be useable with your uncorrected vision.
I have had the Trijicon TR25 green triangle post for several years on my HD gun and love it. Glass is excellent and the reticle works great for fast shooting. The triangle is much sharper and more useful for my eyes than a red dot since I have astigmatism. In dark environments using a flashlight, the triangle will go black but i dont see that as a big deal.
Hm. That is appealing. How would you feel about the TR24 on a HD rifle? I partially envision this rifle as being the ever-elusive "do all" rifle so its utility in that role is something I am thinking about as well.
I'll have to think about the triangle reticle, could see myself either loving or hating it. The rifle has a 416R SS barrel that has proven pretty accurate so I don't want to short change the gun, either.
I tried a tr25 (same reticle but 1-6) and Kahles K16i on a HD rifle a few years ago and ended up back with an Aimpoint.
The triangle can wash out if you are shooting from a dark area to a lit area or if you are using a weapon light. You can still see the reticle, but it will be black and not as eye catching and I’d prefer battery powered for that reason.
The triangle reticle not only doesn’t have hold overs on the reticle for longer range shots, but the posts will actively block your target if you try to hold over.
Even with the best LPVO you still add weight and shrink the eye box compared to an Aimpoint micro.
They can absolutely still work fire that purpose, but realize that you are making sacrifices. With the size of my home/property the magnification doesn’t offer any added benefit for a home defense purposes.
You mentioned not wanting to short change the gun due to its accuracy, but I’d lean more towards not wanting to short change myself out on the intended use of the rifle. If you can only have one rifle, setting it up to do everything makes, but realistically if you want a HD gun you may be better off taking the ~$2000 a Kahles + mount costs and getting a SBR/pistol and Aimpoint.
All that said, I really like LPVOs but I’m not too sensitive to a few extra ounces. I kept my razor 1-6 gen 2 E over the Kahles for a 13.9” do everything rifle since I prefer the illumination, reticle, build quality, illumination dial, and extra money in my pocket.
I have a gen 3 on order for a more long range proposed rifle with Centurion Arms MK12 barrel.
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